The Hawaii Five-O Home Page Discussion Forum -- July 2017


The following are archived comments from July, 2017. After looking around, please add your own comments!

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Submitted by: ringfire211
From: Philadelphia

Fred, that GI sound is pretty crappy and too piercing (hurts my ears!) but I think you may be right - from what I can make out it does sound like that piece from "The Payoff". As for that particular GI episode it might have been one of my earliest memories of the show. It's certainly the first time I saw the name "Denny Miller", long before FIVE-O. I tended to pay attention to those names because if it was a visitor on the island it was always a "Special Guest Star". Silvers, Rickles, McGiver, Calhoun, Persoff, Scotti, Storch, Conried, Gabor, etc.

Added: Monday 31 July 2017 21:58:54 MST


Submitted by: Fred
From: Chatsworth

I found what I was looking for in Gilligan's Island.

Episode: Our Vines Have Tender Apes - Season 3, Episode 20. - http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0588090/?ref_=tt_ep_pr

I have included a YouTube link: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sUcuJz73sro&t=747s

The music starts around 12 minutes, 10 seconds and last a few seconds. Unfortunately, the YouTube copy is bad and sped up a little, but the music is the same as in "The Payoff" as I had described earlier, where the postcard dissolves into the real hotel. If you have a better source of the Gilligan's Island Episode, the music starts around 12:48.

At any rate, it's proof positive that Five-O borrowed music from Gilligan's Island.

By the way, the Ape Man is the GI episode is played by our Five-O guest Star Denny Miller. The behemoth in Pray Love Remember, Pray Love Remember. Miller also has a prominent part in the pilot of Quincy M.E.

Added: Monday 31 July 2017 17:10:32 MST


Submitted by: ringfire211
From: Philadelphia

This is another very easy one. While I'm a fan of "Love Thy Neighbor" (and I enjoy David Huddleston in everything - especially as Grandpa Arnold on THE WONDER YEARS) there's no question that "I'll Kill 'Em Again" is the superior episode. Not only is it the best from season 7 but it's quite possibly in my TOP 5 FIVE-O overall. It's just a stellar episode through and through, and Eddie Josephs is without a doubt the creepiest FIVE-O psycho of them all! MMMMISTER MMMMMcGARRETT! Every time I watch it I'm amazed that Danny Goldman didn't go on to bigger things after this. Looking at his IMDB credits he didn't do all that much before or after, and whatever he did mostly was just bit parts here and there. Nothing of real note or substance. No doubt his FIVE-O role was his most memorable piece of acting, and the most substantive. The guy who played Charles Aarons the computer killer, Jeff David, also has very little on his IMDB. Even less than Goldman. Yet they both played pretty iconic villains on the show, especially Goldman. Excellent score by Harry Geller too!

So season 7 takes the 6-5 lead. Yay! :D

Added: Sunday 30 July 2017 18:20:25 MST


Submitted by: John Chergi
From: Pittsburgh PA

Another tough decision but I'll Kill'Em Again earns the victory. Eddie Josephs is one of the best psychological villains in the 12 seasons. He's a paranoid schizophrenic but an organized offender. He gives McG & HFO team plenty to investigate and a worthy adversary. I like when he pronounces MISTER McGarrett and MISTER Beecham. His undoing was killing his employer Mr. Beecham the book store owner. That was the important link to Josephs.
I think Kill Thy Neighbor is a solid episode. Ben Tanaka was brilliantly framed and thankfully McG could see through it. Rhoads proved to be a worthy and creative adversary for McG. He taped Mrs. Wingfield in the ransom proof of life and used a voice scrambler to disguise his voice. He also outfoxed Chin & several undercover guys at the bus terminal. Locker #186 had a device inside but Rhoads went through the basement as a utility type worker. He tore out the false bottom taking the several hundred thousand ransom in the briefcase. It was a very good ending with Mrs. Wingfield unharmed although Rhoads was shot and killed by Molony. I think Molony would have raped and killed Wingfield if it wasn't for Rhoads. Julie played a key role as Tanaka's girlfriend and Rhoads daughter. She called HFO about her father's involvement in the kidnapping.
It's now 5-5-1 after 11 Season 7 vs. Season 8 battles. Season 7 seems to be playing catch-up since Battle #1. I wonder if Season 7 has enough energy and power to win Battle #12. The final one. JC

Added: Friday 28 July 2017 18:34:17 MST


Submitted by: John Chergi
From: Pittsburgh PA

Today's 11th Season 7 vs. Season 8 battle is a good matchup. Season 7-I'll Kill'Em Again vs. Season 8. Love Thy Neighbor--Take His Wife.
I'll Kill'Em Again will be remembered for Danny Goldman's chilling and outstanding performance as psycho killer Eddie Josephs. Eddie is a loner type working at Beecham's book store. He has collected articles detailing some of HFO's famous cases. Eddie begins to re-create these crimes killing a young woman in her apartment. Eddie later murders a drunkard placing a silver coin on the man's face. McG and HFO team investigate and remember a series of articles written on some of their most interesting cases. There are several articles and McG and HFO team must figure out who will be the next target. Eddie strikes again shooting a police officer who stops him riding through town. Later, Eddie watches the man die in the hospital. This scene mirrors the resuscitation efforts in Pig In A Blanket. Does McG & HFO team stop Eddie in time before he completes the list of victims?
Love Thy Neighbor Take His Wife focuses on Ben Tanaka a leading Hawaiian ecologist who is tired of the precious Hawaiian land being raped in the name of progress. Tanaka and his Earth People United has gained a grassroots voice trying to stop more high rise buildings and other projects. While practicing a speech, Tanaka is kidnapped and forced to drive his Volkswagen van to Del Wingfield's. The two criminals
(Kekoa & Molony)then kidnap Mrs. Wingfield and take her to a hidden location. Tanaka is drugged and placed back at his house. It's a perfect frame since Del Wingfield's security camera picks up Tanaka driving his fan to the kidnapping area. Vincent Rhoads Del's neighbor is the mastermind behind the abduction and the later ransom. Is Tanaka guilty of this crime? Will McG & HFO team find Lisa Wingfield in time? End of Part I. JC

Added: Friday 28 July 2017 16:06:42 MST


Submitted by: honu59
From: New York

"Where's the music from Hookman?"

Ringfire, I checked the release date of the LP - it was 1969, so the "Hookman" episode had not yet been made. Yes, I do have the soundtrack on LP that I bought back in the day and I do have a turntable. I believe that it is now available on CD.

Added: Friday 28 July 2017 14:29:34 MST


Submitted by: Mr. Mike
From: Vancouver

As per the description at SAE:

FSM is celebrating the occasion with the first-ever CD release of Capitol Records' soundtrack LP for the original series.

Added: Friday 28 July 2017 11:29:17 MST


Submitted by: ringfire211
From: Philadelphia

Honu, that's what I'm saying. Where's the music from "Hookman"? Where's Ray's score from "Ten Thousand Diamonds"? Where's Shores' music from "Forty Feet High" and "And a Time to Die"? Where's Bruce Broughton? It's an incomplete sountrack. Sure, there are some cool pieces of music from the pilot (some of which aren't even on the soundtrack) but really it was just a quick release to sell the rest of the series. That'd be my guess anyway. As I said I do have all those tracks so I don't feel the need to purchase it. When they released the 24 soundtrack (my other favorite show) they first released the first disc which covered seasons 1, 2, 3 and then the second disc which covered seasons 4 and 5. Unfortunately they never released music from 6, 7, and 8. But at least I got "something" there. Not so with FIVE-O.

Am I correct in assuming that these are LP's that are being sold? If so then I would need a record player to play it. So that's even more reason for me not to purchase it.

Added: Friday 28 July 2017 09:48:44 MST


Submitted by: Fred
From: Chatsworth

Thanks Stephen Z. on your Don B. Ray music citing. I'll continue looking through Gilligan's Island - 3rd Season, but maybe my recollection is off.

Added: Friday 28 July 2017 09:13:40 MST


Submitted by: honu59
From: New York

Ringfire, I understand your comment about the soundtrack, I really do. But the original LP is really fine music and I'm happy that I have it in my collection. Way back when I purchased it, I was a little disappointed that it didn't have some of the other wonderful music tracks, like from Hookman. But it's a piece of Five-O history, none the less. I'm delighted that I can listen to other tracks on websites like this one! Thanks, Mr. Mike!

Added: Friday 28 July 2017 07:06:14 MST


Submitted by: ringfire211
From: Philadelphia

Until they release an expanded FIVE-O soundtrack (the way they did with M:I) I'm not interested in purchasing what is essentially a couple of tracks from the pilot episode (and some aren't even used in the pilot).

I don't count this as a proper FIVE-O soundtrack. Besides, I already have those tracks on my laptop. Don't remember where I got them from. Maybe from this site.

Added: Thursday 27 July 2017 19:17:51 MST


Submitted by: Mr. Mike
From: Vancouver

Film Score Monthly release of the Five-O soundtrack (originally on Capitol records) has reportedly less than 100 copies left for sale at SAE:

http://www1.screenarchives.com/title_detail.cfm/ID/14350/HAWAII-FIVE-0/

They currently have a deal:

20% OFF THE FILM SCORE MONTHLY LABEL
USE CODE FSM2017 AT CHECKOUT
Sale ends Monday, July 31st at Midnight EDT!

Added: Thursday 27 July 2017 16:46:55 MST


Submitted by: Stephen Z.
From: New Jersey

The music that was used in the transition scene in The Payoff originated in the episode Paniolo. The Paniolo show music was mostly original music done by Don B. Ray.

Added: Thursday 27 July 2017 14:53:58 MST


Submitted by: ringfire211
From: Philadelphia

While I love both episodes, this is an easy win for "McGarrett is Missing", my favorite from season 8. So it's a tie once again - 5-5. I love the rainforest location, all the thunder and lightning, McGarrett at the mercy of Bombay, it's all very effective and exciting! Of course I prefer Albert Paulsen's Bombay to Charles Cioffi's and that continuity would have been welcome, but on the other hand Paulsen is a fairly skinny guy and not very imposing or physical at all whereas Cioffi certainly has some girth and extra muscle and thus is a more physical threat to McGarrett. "Masterpiece" does in fact have an excellent cast and George Voskovec plays yet another excellent (and well spoken and intelligent) villain this time around. Durkin and Anderson are an excellent pair of villains. How they conceal the painting at the end and how Durkin shoves it in McGarrett's face and then tosses it aside was brilliant and, as Durkin says, "DAAARING!!" Lol. Both episodes also have an excellent soundtrack - "Masterpiece" by Stevens and "MIM" by Broughton (in my opinion his best!).

P.S. Of the 2 rainforest episodes "MIM" and season 9's "Elegy in a Rainforest" I used to prefer the latter (mostly because of William Watson as Marcus Lucien) but these days I think I prefer the former. The latter is dragged down a bit by Karen Manicote and the nature boy David whereas the former is a more lean experience with McG vs Bombay. McG is at the center of it. Both episodes have some similarities. They both feature the same exact scene near the beginning of McG sailing, with Chin rushing to the pier yelling to him that Bombay/Lucien has escaped. Both are also scored by Broughton.

Added: Thursday 27 July 2017 07:41:10 MST


Submitted by: John Chergi
From: Pittsburgh PA

Season 7 vs. Season 8.
In a close decision, How To Steal A Masterpiece gives Season 7 the victory. This makes the score 5-4-1 after 10 decisions. Season 8 leads narrowly. Great casting in How To Steal A Masterpiece. Interesting characters Ogdon and Jeff and good chemistry among the actors make this worth watching. Suspense throughout as any of the group could be involved in the painting theft. This was a Jack Lord type episode with his love of art and paintings.
McG is made human in this episode McGarrett is Missing. A McG without his gun and a probable broken leg. There seems no hope for McG with Bombay controlling him in the middle of a large rain forest. Cioffi is effective as Bombay but a taller and meaner actor could have really made MIM a Classic. I thought it was authentic when the young girl had the weapon. She was scared of the gun but helped McG's release. Bombay was double-crossed twice by the criminal friends of his. A Jack Hogan sighting usually raises a HFO episode 1/2 or 1 star from me. He's a Coast Guard Commander trying to locate Steve in this one. Which episode do you prefer? JC

Added: Wednesday 26 July 2017 15:58:09 MST


Submitted by: John Chergi
From: Pittsburgh PA

Hello Classic HFO Fans! The 10th battle in the Summer Series Season 7 vs. Season 8. How To Steal A Masterpiece vs. McGarrett Is Missing!!! Season 7 How To Steal A Masterpiece deals with a stolen Gauguin painting worth several thousands of dollars. The criminals were able to circumvent an elaborate security system, overpower a guard, and steal the painting. Wealthy art collector Charles Ogdon is understandably upset and wants the painting back. McG & HFO team have several suspects including: Old man Ogdon, Jeff the wise-cracking grandson, Miss Forbes the attractive secretary, and art appraisers Durkin and Anderson. Ogdon finally receives a ransom for the painting $250,000. The group defies HFO and handles the ransom demand themselves. The story has a nice pace and some cool twists and turns...
McGarrett Is Missing is a McGarrett-centric type episode. McG must escort dangerous prisoner Charley Bombay back to prison after his escape from Oahu prison and his later capture on the Big Island. Bombay is sold out by criminal types on his location. McG, Bombay, and the pilot encounter a ferocious storm in the police plane as Bombay is being transported back to prison. Flashes of lightning, pounding rain, thunder...It is all very realistic. The pilot can't navigate in the incredible storm and crashes in a jungle rain forest area. The pilot is dead and McG has a busted leg. Bombay controls the situation when he wrestles the gun from McG. It looks like certain death for McG at the mercy of Bombay. Part I JC

Added: Wednesday 26 July 2017 15:00:47 MST


Submitted by: Mr. Mike
From: Vancouver

Gilligan's Island discussion (non-musical) is being moved to "Other TV Shows Forum." Please continue it here.

Added: Wednesday 26 July 2017 14:08:00 MST


Submitted by: Fred
From: Chatsworth

I'll try to peruse through the Gilligan's Island episodes. Another "hate to admit", but I have the color episodes (seasons 2 & 3) on DVDs, so I can definitely find it.

But to bolster my claim, Mort Stevens has Gilligan's Island credits on his IMDB page. He composed music for a couple of episodes, including the iconic Producer episode featuring Phil Silvers. He was also music supervisor for another 11 episodes.

Added: Wednesday 26 July 2017 07:59:36 MST


Submitted by: ringfire211
From: Philadelphia

Fred, yes I'd be interested in hearing a clip of this music on GI. I watched quite a bit of the show as well (though probably not as much as you) so I should have recognized it. I believe there may be episodes online available (maybe on dailymotion.com) so maybe you can find this piece of music there and note down the point in time where it plays. Then we can all enjoy your "misguided" shenanigans :)

Added: Tuesday 25 July 2017 07:37:05 MST


Submitted by: Fred
From: Chatsworth

I hate to admit this, but I led a misguided set of preteen and teen years in the 70's. Gilligan's Island was close to number 1 on my rerun list. The music in 5-O is definitely also in GI. The CBS connection makes a lot of sense. Unfortunately, now I'll have to relive those teen years and track down the music on GI via YouTube and report back on this later. :D

Added: Monday 24 July 2017 22:34:36 MST


Submitted by: ringfire211
From: Philadelphia

John, it looks like season 7 finally takes the lead 5-4. It's actually a toss-up for me between "Welcome to Our Branch Office" and "Retire in Sunny Hawaii". Both are the excellent episodes from their respective seasons and I could go either way. But since you went with "Retire" I decided to go with "Branch". It's really a very clever idea - duplicating the Five-O office and staff. Far fetched? Yes. But clever nevertheless. Just like "Here Today... Gone Tonight". Very clever! Of course "Retire" was excellent too, especially with Helen Hayes doing her amateur detective bit. This story idea was so popular in fact that they revisited this type of story again with the elderly snoop Millicent Shand (Mildred Natwick) in seasons 10 and 11. Clearly they were inspired by this episode.

Added: Monday 24 July 2017 20:31:10 MST


Submitted by: ringfire211
From: Philadelphia

Fred, I don't recognize that "transition scene" music from The Payoff as being from GILLIGAN'S ISLAND. It sounds a bit too dramatic for GILLIGAN. It's definitely a recognizable Five-O sound though. But since both shows were CBS shows then I suppose it could come from the CBS music library. But it just doesn't sound like GILLIGAN music to me. Sounds like FIVE-O music.

Added: Monday 24 July 2017 18:43:29 MST


Submitted by: John Chergi
From: Pittsburgh PA

Spotlight Feature: Season 8 Sing A Song Of Suspense. Classic Hawaii Five O Review. My DVD player must like Chelsea Merriman because it wanted to play Sing A Song Of Suspense. I finally surrendered to it. Will admit the Chelsea beginning song drones on too long. It also looked pretty crowded in the hotel room for the impromptu concert. Koko was an interesting combination nice guy and villain. The young girl singer had an ugly personality with her drinking to excess. It might have been better to have her sing with Chelsea one song. The contrast between Chelsea's talent and her could have been better established. Sing A Song Of Suspense has some little inconsistencies that knocked it down a few points. Koko stated it was roses that made the marks on his face. McG should have the lab crew take a swab or sample of the scratches. He would have had probable cause as Koko was standing at the same balcony the girl singer went over. McG also doesn't put two and two together earlier when he finds Chelsea's expensive guitar at the hotel room. Somebody says, "That's Chelsea's". McG later recounts lyrics to a Chelsea song to her and a fan of her music. Another thing. The Koko assistant makes the call to Chelsea as the fake operator and McG states about tracing the call but it isn't followed up later. It would have been traced back to Koko's place. McDougal also lets Koko in on the business card ID. It didn't seem much of an ID. Probably a driver's ID, college ID, worker ID card would have been better. Also, I don't understand how McG guessed right on Koko's arrival. I guess he did a quick brainstorm U-turn like R&R&R. Chelsea also overheard Koko's possible involvement in another crime when the girl singer told him of the murders. That wasn't mentioned. Even with these things, I liked Chelsea's personality and McG and she had a good chemistry. Good suspense as the girl hung on the balcony and then lost her grip falling to her death below. I'd give Sing A Song Of Suspense 4 stars out of 6 stars. What about you? JC

Added: Monday 24 July 2017 15:07:51 MST


Submitted by: Mr. Mike
From: Vancouver

Several interesting Hawaii links:

https://explorepartsunknown.com/destination/hawaii/

https://explorepartsunknown.com/hawaii/the-perfect-day-in-honolulu/

https://explorepartsunknown.com/hawaii/the-bakery-that-serves-up-molokais-nightlife/

https://explorepartsunknown.com/hawaii/hawaiis-instant-travel-meal-reborn/

https://explorepartsunknown.com/hawaii/the-history-of-hawaii-in-9-dishes/

Added: Sunday 23 July 2017 09:31:37 MST


Submitted by: ringfire211
From: Philadelphia

John, yes that kinda bothered me too about Cal planting that bomb right there where he would be visible to a lot of people. Plus Neil Porter was right there on the next boat over that whole time. He told McGarrett this and he told him that Cal stepped away for those few minutes to make that phone call. So after Cal stepped away he would have had to come back to plant the bomb and he would have been seen by his buddy Neil and probably some other people too. The only explanation is that he somehow swam or scuba'ed over to the tender to plant the bomb. That might be the only way he wouldn't have been seen.

Added: Saturday 22 July 2017 13:45:21 MST


Submitted by: Fred
From: Chatsworth

I believe Ringfire is right on Force of Waves. I think the speeding ticket scene was meant to bring light to the 5-O team that Cal had two personalities and that the "normal" Cal did not know about the "troubled" Cal.

I was watching "The Payoff" today, one of my personal favorites and I have a couple of observations:

1) Can someone explain to me why Vince and Madge bring with them the ransom loaded suitcase to Hawaii on their vacation? Vince had no intention of spending the dough yet and they could not have known that they run into Jace while there and thus have the cash to plant some on them. I will admit that the cash made a great final scene with a crazed Madge clutching to what she couldn't touch for the last 6 years.

2) Anyone else notice that in this episode as well as in others that Five-O used the same scene changing incidental music that was also used in Gilligan's Island? It's played near the 24 minute mark where the postcard fades into the the actual hotel.

Added: Saturday 22 July 2017 13:14:00 MST


Submitted by: John Chergi
From: Pittsburgh PA

Part 2-Retire In Sunny Hawaii Forever
RISHF is one of the best Season 8 episodes. It features legendary actress Helen Hayes as Danno's Aunt Clara. She's visiting Danno and meets a new friend Mr. Miller on the plane. Mr. Miller is suddenly taken by force from his hotel and later killed. Before the incident, Mr. Miller called Aunt Clara in a hurry before the line goes foul. A substitute Mr. Miller takes Mr. Miller's place and fools Duke but Aunt Clara witnessed the real Mr. Miller on the plane. Aunt Clara knocks on the door and sees the fake Miller. She quickly ad-libs selling a magazine subscription and some kind of senior citizen discounts to new arrivals. Clara is proven right when the real Mr. Miller is found deceased on the beach. McG & HFO team discover that Mr. Miller was killed when he went to claim some $ he had in Hawaii. Ellen Sutherland & Havens were in cahoots as Havens would bring in similar looking people from the Retirement Home to collect $ from the Treasury office. Usually large sums of money. Aunt Clara goes undercover to catch Havens in the scam. Does she make it out in time???
Season 8 Retire In Sunny Hawaii Forever wins this battle giving Season 8 a 5-3-1 lead. Excellent acting by Charles Dunning (Havens),Lynne Ellen Hollinger (Ellen),and Helen Hayes help RISHF win this one. No doubt Welcome To Our Branch Office is very creative with the HFO doubles and a more lighthearted episode. However,the last 15 minutes WTOBO stumbles after the $ suitcase switch. Bowman arrives at the same airport as the angry HFO doubles with no $. Duh! Locking Stash his partner in crime another head-scratching move. Stash simply calls HFO with the coins he has. It was funny watching the Real HFO team apprehend the imposter ones. A good battle but RISHF captures the victory. What do you think? JC

Added: Saturday 22 July 2017 12:34:31 MST


Submitted by: John Chergi
From: Pittsburgh PA

Classic HFO Fans.
Today's 9th Season 7 vs. Season 8 battle is an outstanding one. Welcome To Our Branch Office vs. Retire In Sunny Hawaii Forever. Right now, Season 8 has a slight 4-3-1 lead in the first 8 battles. Welcome To Our Branch Office is fondly remembered as "The Fake Hawaii Five O" episode. Bowman & Stash are the masterminds creating a fake Hawaii building similar to the real Hawaii Five O building. They had photographed inside the real HFO building duplicating the inside to the letter. McG desk, his awards, the side offices for example. Bowman also finds 4 look a like HFO men to resemble McG, Ben,Chin,and Danno. They quickly go to work shaking down new local businessmen types in Honolulu who wouldn't know the real HFO team. They pretend to shoot at Walker one of the businessman. You might remember Walker (John Stalker) as Harvey Drew in V for Vashon. Shatner is another target. That's Frank (Douglas Mossman) playing a businessman type. The car bomb and the letter bomb are convincing enough for some of the targeted to pay for the HFO protection. The episode heats up when Walker points out that McG and Danno plus the rest of the HFO team were trying to shake him down for protection $. Walker is adament that McG & Danno were the ones that were behind it. Manicote (Glenn Cannon) as usual gets involved trying to make sense of it all and usually has McG & HFO team on the verge of indictment. An angry Walker decides to cooperate and re-trace the movements of the car shooting chase and the HFO office. McG and HFO team marvel at the fake office. An exact replica of the HFO office. A good $40,000 to 50,000 went into designing it to perfection. Bowman & Stash collected around $250,000 in the great scam. Will McG & HFO team find Bowman, Stash, & the fake HFO team in time? End Of Part I JC

Added: Saturday 22 July 2017 11:38:57 MST


Submitted by: Tom Hackman
From: Plainfield, IL

As the series progressed, Jack Lord's introductions to the episodes became more detached. Early on, he would give a few details about the episode and/or the guest star. Later on, he would just say the name of the episode, then "be there, aloha!". In "The Jinn Who Clears The Way", he referred to it as "The Jinn That Clears The Way" in the intro.

Added: Saturday 22 July 2017 07:32:43 MST


Submitted by: John Chergi
From: Pittsburgh PA

Ringfire
I didn't like to break open the new Season 3 Classic HFO DVD's but I wanted to watch Force Of Waves again. Cal had a 90 minute window from 3:00-4:30 PM to construct the bomb and set it up on the boat. Clark and Maria boarded the tender from the yacht to the boat dock for the party. They arrived at 3:00 PM. I don't see how Cal could have rigged the bomb on Clark Sloan's boat. The tender was tied to the dock. People from the party were looking or facing the dock. Plus, there were about a dozen more ships lined up near the dock.
You were right about Cal receiving the speeding ticket the day before. Cal was going 80 mph and Officer Onoe gave him the ticket. I think the writers decided to give Cal 2 personalities because he was a good friend of Steve's. It would have reflected bad on McG to have a murderer friend. 4.5 stars for Force Of Waves about right. JC

Added: Friday 21 July 2017 19:48:40 MST


Submitted by: Mr. Mike
From: Vancouver

https://twitter.com/StarAdvertiser/status/888492888799051776

Isn't that special! This means instead of 2 stories per episode, there will probably be 4 or 5!

Added: Friday 21 July 2017 18:50:05 MST


Submitted by: ringfire211
From: Philadelphia

John, again I think you're missing something about the episode. Maybe you haven't watched it recently.

You say: "The inference they tried to draw was Cal somehow installed the bomb on Mr. Sloan's boat and later sped away. He was ticketed by Ono and then returned to work on his boat. That's when the explosion occurred at the party."

This inference is never made by anyone. In fact Danno tells Steve that Officer Ono stopped Cal "yesterday" for speeding. So it wasn't even on that same day. Besides, Cal wouldn't have to drive anywhere to install the bomb. The boat that blew up was right there where Cal and Neil were working. It was installed sometime after Sloan and his wife arrived at the party, sometime during that 45 minute period when no one was looking. So there was no need for Cal to drive anywhere to install the bomb. He told Neil he needed to step away for a bit to call his wife. That's when he installed the bomb. The driving that he did was the day before and had nothing to do with the bomb. It only served to raise the issue of Cal's memory loss. Also Danno did tell McGarrett that the least he could do is fix Cal's ticket since he did save his life, which is what McGarrett most likely planned to do.

I don't know how accurate the split personality thing is but I still found the last 15 minutes or so VERY SUSPENSEFUL. In fact for me that was the highlight of the episode. Everything earlier was the standard Five-O stuff.

Added: Friday 21 July 2017 17:01:06 MST


Submitted by: Stephen Z.
From: New Jersey

The piano music mentioned by nomis63a was heard as early as the second season episode The Joker's Wild, Man, Wild. A small portion of it was used in the next week promo for All the King'sI Horses that same season. I wonder if was a needle drop piece composed by Don B. Ray.

Added: Friday 21 July 2017 14:39:03 MST


Submitted by: John Chergi
From: Pittsburgh PA

Force Of Waves made the mistake of making Cal the killer. The whole thing about the speeding ticket got repetitious. You would think Cal just saved McG's life in the boat explosion. Why wouldn't McG just pay the ticket or have it erased? I know Cal drives fast. The inference they tried to draw was Cal somehow installed the bomb on Mr. Sloan's boat and later sped away. He was ticketed by Ono and then returned to work on his boat. That's when the explosion occurred at the party. We witnessed the same BS in Anatomy Of A Bribe when Maynard suddenly goes psycho after being a cool and calculated customer the entire episode. No reason to make Cal have 2 personalities. Fihrburne the lawyer could have been the killer. I think that would have been the better move. JC

Added: Friday 21 July 2017 12:54:03 MST


Submitted by: ringfire211
From: Philadelphia

John, I think you misunderstood the connection between Cal blowing up the boat and his speeding ticket. He didn't get the speeding ticket because he was running away from the scene of the crime. He got the speeding ticket simply because he liked to drive fast, as McGarrett points out to him when both are on the road in his MG roadster. McGarrett tells him you better slow down or you'll get another ticket from Officer Ono. When Cal says he never got a ticket that's what put McGarrett on notice. That's why he double checked with Officer Ono to make sure that there's no mistake. So if he did give Cal the ticket then either Cal is lying about not getting a ticket (why?) or he really doesn't remember (which is an even bigger and more puzzling why). I still think it's a pretty big leap for McGarrett to think that Cal's memory issues and the boat explosion might somehow be related but hey they needed for McGarrett to catch on to Cal somehow. Again I don't know why Cal would block out the speeding ticket from his memory unless it's something that happened shortly after the murder so he blocked that whole part of the day out. But if that were the case then he wouldn't have remembered the boat explosion at all or saving Steve or Neil going up to the top of that mast to fix that light.

Added: Friday 21 July 2017 09:03:45 MST


Submitted by: John Chergi
From: Pittsburgh PA

Ringfire
I also enjoyed Force Of Waves. It is a well-written episode with plenty of suspects. Cal is a great character. He has so many skills and talents. The episode could have captured my rare 6 stars but it starts going downhill in the last 15 minutes. I think the audience and a fellow watcher doesn't buy Cal as a killer. He saved McGarrett's life after the boat explosion at great risk to his own safety. The speeding ticket was supposed to be proof that Cal was guilty of the crime...But Cal was on the boat and saved McG when the other boat exploded. He was not in a rush at all. The 2 Cal personalities thing dragged the episode down. McG disobeyed the psychologist by pressing Cal on details and things. He McG could have been killed by Cal. I would give Force Of Waves a solid 4.5 stars out of 6. Will give McG & HFO team credit for tying together the boat explosions in Singapore and Philippines to the one in Hawaii. Excellent work! JC

Added: Friday 21 July 2017 06:24:15 MST


Submitted by: Mr. Mike
From: Vancouver

This article is not very nice, aside from the stupid and annoying video clips which litter it from beginning to end:

https://fairyprincessdiaries.com/2017/07/07/calling-bs-on-hawaiifiveocbs/

Added: Thursday 20 July 2017 18:18:00 MST


Submitted by: Mr. Mike
From: Vancouver

I agree with Ringfire, this is no doubt some stock track from the CBS Music Library. It certainly doesn't sound like any pop standard, and I had to figure out a lot of pop standards when I was doing my Peter Gunn anal-ysis (http://www.petergunn.tv). I would be curious to know, however, whether this music got "modified" when the episode was released on DVD. Unfortunately, I don't have my old VHS tapes of the show to compare it to.

Added: Thursday 20 July 2017 18:15:33 MST


Submitted by: ringfire211
From: Philadelphia

nomis63a, that sounds like some random generic background music. I think of it as "elevator music" lol. I wouldn't know what it's called or where you could find it. I never really paid attention to it. I'm more into the music scores and not so much into background sounds or jingles. Perhaps someone here can help you with this one.

Added: Thursday 20 July 2017 17:25:51 MST


Submitted by: nomis63a
From: California

Goodness, ringfire211, I just loaded up "Force of Waves" from my DVD and my suspicion was correct--that background music I'm looking for is also in that episode, during the whole "pre-opening" scene at the yacht club! It's much clearer in this episode, too. Anyone reading this have any idea what song that is or where I can find a clean version?

Added: Thursday 20 July 2017 16:42:49 MST


Submitted by: ringfire211
From: Philadelphia

I watched "Force of Waves" last night which I always liked because of the multiple personality disorder of Cal Anderson. I like how the murder seems to be connected to money and gambling and a will and things of that nature. But ultimately all these are irrelevant and are the work of a "serial killer" who has killed in this manner before, triggered by a deeply disturbed mental state. The best part of the episode is the ending where McGarrett is gently trying to open up Cal's mind into realizing what he has done. The whole mood and feel and acting in that scene is excellent!

The one thing that doesn't quite make sense is why Cal would forget about the speeding ticket. We know that he has blocked out the murders from his mind (committed by "evil Cal" so to speak) but why would he block out the ticket incident? Does he block out anything remotely negative from memory? If that's the case then he'd have some huge chunks of his life missing and I'm sure his wife and friends would have picked up on this long ago. Everyday tasks that he would block out from memory. I know this was done to propel the story forward - to raise a flag in McGarrett's mind - but it doesn't quite make sense. Getting a ticket is not the same as murder. He would have remembered the ticket. Another thing is that the moment you saw John Vernon you knew he would be the killer. I've never seen him play a good guy in anything. Like Richard Lynch, he's the perennial bad guy. The closest he ever came to a "good guy" role was the SF mayor in DIRTY HARRY but even there he was a creep. Oh and how about Linda Marsh? That short dress and those legs! :!inlove:

Added: Thursday 20 July 2017 11:45:12 MST


Submitted by: Mr. Mike
From: Vancouver

Another article of interest:

http://www.npr.org/2017/07/19/536711220/-hawaii-five-0-casting-announcement-doesn-t-fix-cbs-larger-diversity-problem?live=1

Added: Thursday 20 July 2017 03:30:54 MST


Submitted by: Joekido
From: Colorado Springs

Beulah Koale was born in New Zealand a Samoan decent who are Polynesians like the Hawaiiian Polynesians. It's so close but good. But they also chose not to take any names from the Original Series and made it new.

Added: Wednesday 19 July 2017 21:07:22 MST


Submitted by: Mr. Mike
From: Vancouver

Changes coming to Five-Zero cast for Season 8:

http://variety.com/2017/tv/news/hawaii-five-o-season-8-new-cast-meaghan-rath-1202489989/

Added: Wednesday 19 July 2017 13:11:38 MST


Submitted by: ringfire211
From: Philadelphia

John, last time we did this my score was 4-3 in favor of season 8.

This one is a very easy matchup. "A Gun for McGarrett" is one of my favorites from season 7 while "Waterfront Steal" is one of my least favorites from season 8. Like "Steal Now - Pay Later" which also deals with stolen merchandise I just don't find it very exciting. Simon Oakland rants and raves a lot which gets old fast. "Gun" on the other hand has Steve in the crosshairs so it's an automatic win in my book! Great suspense, ruthless and oily villain in Savage, and a great twist with the Marni character. I loved seeing McG for once let his guard down. I didn't see that twist coming when I first saw it. I also loved how they sacrificed one of their own (George Herman) so that McG would feel safe and wouldn't catch on that Marni was the REAL assassin. You're right about John Gracciano who plays Savage's henchman. He's Weston's henchman in "Double Exposure" and in a memorable shot runs right into the camera (you can see his nostrils lol) as the commercial wave rolls. Finally seasons 7 and 8 even out - it's a 4-4 tie.

Added: Wednesday 19 July 2017 11:42:19 MST


Submitted by: nomis63a
From: California

Hey, all! Long time Five-O fan, first time forum poster. I'm helping plan a 60th birthday party for an old buddy, and we want to have various Five-O background music playing at the event. One tune that particularly stood out to me was in the background of Season 3 Episode 13 "The Payoff" (from the DVD, "Steve rushes to capture a criminal and his girlfriend before they're caught by their pursuers - two men from whom they stole a large ransom in cash." The scene I'm talking about is when McGarrett and Danno go to a bar in search of the aforementioned "criminal" and asks the bartender for any of criminal's contacts. There's a piano melody playing in the background that I could swear I've heard on other episodes - but I've scoured Mike's music section of the site, and I just can't find it. So maybe it wasn't made specifically for the show? Any help would be much appreciated. Cheers!

Added: Tuesday 18 July 2017 22:31:36 MST


Submitted by: John Chergi
From: Pittsburgh PA

Season 7 vs. Season 8 Part II
The Waterfront Steal heats up when Danno's cop friend Kimura stumbles upon one of the Waterfront robberies. Kimura has things under control except for Harry who shoots Kimura in hiding. Kimura might be shot dead but wounded Tommy. It's a gut shot wound. Harry and Zeno steal one of the large warehouse trucks with the wounded Tommy and plan their next move. Does Tommy survive the shooting? Who is behind the Waterfront robberies?
FINAL DECISION---Season 7 A Gun For McGarrett wins this battle. Savage proved to be a highly intelligent criminal mastermind and both of his plans should have worked killing McG. Sweet Marni as a hit woman was a brilliant touch. Excellent acting and cast including Sig Meer (Jim Demarest) and Tony (John Gracciano). HFO fans might remember Gracciano in The Double Exposure as Angelo. For some reason, Frank has a larger role than usual. His informant Yosh provides valuable info.
I like the Waterfront Steal a solid episode. Mr.Mendoza (Simon Oakland) had a strong plan as the mastermind behind the Waterfront robberies. He then swooped in buying up some of those businesses affected in the robberies cheaper. With his wealth, it makes little sense to be involved in these thefts. Love seeing Oakland shout and bluster. His daughter Elena shines as Tommy's girlfriend. Kimura was marked for death when I saw him early in the episode years ago. Can't kill off Danno or another regular. Don't understand why Tommy would steal some of the calculators. The final explosions were suspenseful as they moved the gut shot Tommy out of the large warehouse truck just in time. I think the Waterfront Steal would have been executed better if HFO had Chin or Duke on a rooftop with a walkie talkie. He could radio down to HPD on any suspicious activity. The Waterfront area looked expansive and much territory to cover.
A Gun For McGarrett wins this one as Season 7 closes the deficit to 4-3-1 after 8 head to head battles. I'm going to 12 battles so Season 7 has to make up ground. JC

Added: Tuesday 18 July 2017 13:06:12 MST


Submitted by: John Chergi
From: Pittsburgh PA

HFO FANS
There was some talk on Classic HFO a few posts which gives me the opportunity to bring back Season 7 vs. Season 8. It was Season 8 leading Season 7 by 4-2-1. Battle #8 A Gun For McGarrett vs. The Waterfront Steal. This is a good matchup. McGarrett is targeted by a British sounding criminal SN Savage. McG should have been killed by an exploding award but survives the explosion. Five O regroups and must find out who tried to assassinate Steve. Savage moves to Phase #2 utilizing the services of hit woman Marni. She's an attractive blonde art shop owner who has a similar accent to Savage. McG admires the strong attractive Marni. She will cooperate with the investigation unlike many owners. Marni survives a second attack and requires hospitalization. He protects Marni as does Five O. Will Marni survive? Does McG find the hitman in time?
Season 8 The Waterfront Steal features Mr. Mendoza a respected businessman and a man of power and wealth. He has plenty of angry fire leveled at the police and security. Mendoza represents the owners who are getting their warehouses robbed losing merchandise and $. Mendoza has a young daughter about 19 or 20 who is living her life. Her boyfriend Tommy Lind is one of the Warehouse robbers. There's plenty of good family stuff here. Mendoza is a real rags to riches story and has reached a high station in Hawaii. He's about appearances and respectability. The daughter is strong like her father but still lives with him in an impressive house and property.

Added: Tuesday 18 July 2017 12:13:46 MST


Submitted by: ringfire211
From: Philadelphia

Mike, track #1 was correct - "One for the Money". Track #5 is "Thousand Pardons".

Added: Sunday 16 July 2017 12:53:17 MST


Submitted by: ringfire211
From: Philadelphia

Hey Mike,

Track #5 here -- http://www.fiveohomepage.com/ottomusic.htm -- is actually from "A Thousand Pardons -- You're Dead", Morton's Emmy-winning score. The first cue in that track is indeed heard in "The Ransom" (during the Sea Life Park ransom drop) as well as in "Leopard on the Rock" but both of those cues as heard in that track are from "Thousand Pardons".

And we also determined a little while back that #22 is from "Full Fathom Five" (when Danny is rummaging through Reese's cabin).

#18 is almost certainly from "Is This Any Way to Run a Paradise?" (when Nephi Hanneman sneaks into the Chinese guy's house at night from the ocean and kills him).

#9 is "Guarnerius Caper" (same cue as #10)

#3 might be "And a Time to Die" but I'm not positive. And #4 could be a number of episodes, not sure about it. Maybe someone can chime in on these 2.

Just filling in some blanks for ya. In case you want to update it.

Added: Sunday 16 July 2017 06:17:30 MST


Submitted by: ringfire211
From: Philadelphia

Marc, that's really narrow-minded of you to label an entire people trash just because you had a problem with one jerk. Do you really expect everyone to welcome you with open arms all the time? This is the real world. It doesn't work like that. If I have a bad experience with one Chinese guy am I gonna throw all the Chinese under the bus? That's ridiculous. I'll tell you one thing - if I fall in love with the islands and decide to move there it's gonna take a whole lot to change my mind about moving there. I'm not easily scared off or offended. There are jerks the world over. To change all your plans because of one jerk makes absolutely no sense. Were you actually planning to purchase that property where that jerk lives? Because there's a multitude of properties across the different islands. Take your pick!

Added: Saturday 15 July 2017 17:29:37 MST


Submitted by: Mr. Mike
From: Vancouver

I'm trying to track down shows with Elissa in them. Of the following, those with an asterisk (*) have been released in complete box sets; I'm not sure if individual seasons from these were or are available.

Maybe someone has access to these shows through the local library?

If so, let me know, you can contact me through the link at the bottom of the page.

The Bold Ones*
S01E01
S01E03

The Brian Keith Show
S02E05
S02E16

Barnaby Jones*
S08E02 (2-part show set in Hawaii)
S08E03

Vega$* (uncredited part)
S03E01

Revealing Evidence (TV movie, 1990)

Jake and the Fatman*
S03E17
S04E07

The Byrds of Paradise
S01E08

Added: Saturday 15 July 2017 01:44:30 MST


Submitted by: Marc Fountain
From: California

I've enjoyed 5-0 for many years but probably will stop watching. Daniel de Kim and Grace Park are essential to the story threads of the modern version and it makes no sense to not pay them equitably. If I don't watch then Caan and Olaughlin don't get paid either.
On a related topic, another poster noted that Hawaiians welcome us as tourists who spend money but despise us as residents. I recently experienced being despised as a tourist. I rented a house on the South coast of the big island near some brackish tidal pools. The driveway to my rental was clearly marked as "no parking" but one morning I woke up and there was a car parked blocking the driveway.
I walked out to the pond and announced that I was going to call a tow truck for the little blue Toyota that was blocking my driveway. A Hawaiian guy said "that's my car, I grew up here and I can park wherever I want, even in your driveway.'
That attitude and experience changed my retirement plans. I have no respect for Hawaiians and no desire to visit again or live there. Based on my experience, ohana=trash.

Added: Friday 14 July 2017 21:13:15 MST


Submitted by: John Chergi
From: Pittsburgh PA

Piper
Death's Name Is SAM one of the Classic episodes of Season 8. It's nearly flawless in its execution. You knew it was going to be great when the Old Man used the cyanide capsule in the hospital. One of the best scenes when the young policeman undercover completes the puzzle. The helicopter theft and explosion was one of the best in the series. I wonder how it would have played out had the policeman NOT radioed in from the helicopter. It's very suspenseful and I would give the episode 5.5 stars out of 6 stars. The lady actress Darcy Hinton also played Betty Rogers the wife in Anatomy Of A Bribe. A very underrated actress if you ask me. JC

Added: Friday 14 July 2017 10:40:07 MST


Submitted by: Piper1
From: Riyadh, Saudi Arabia

Was re-watching "Death's Name is SAM" from Season 8 the other night. Did anybody besides me notice that the actress who plays the captured terrorist being interrogated by McGarrett in his office bears a strong physical resemblance to Patricia Hearst? (I can't find her name in the IMDB.com credits.) Something tells me this was not a coincidence.

Added: Friday 14 July 2017 01:51:43 MST


Submitted by: H50 1.0 FOREVER
From: Under the Live Oak Trees

Mike, the thing that bothers me about Hawai'i returning to its sovereignty is how it will protect itself. Just as the Islands are the United States' extended finger into the Pacific (See "Cocoon" (Pilot)), it could easily become any other nation's extended finger into the Pacific. Some of those nations might not be of Hawai'i's choice. For example, China, North Korea, and the former Soviet Union, all of which are Pacific Rim nations and dangerously close to the shores of Hawai'i. So, although I agree with the Hawaiian people about how wrong the takeover of the 1890s was, I don't see how a nation that relies almost exclusively on tourism to balance its budget can hope to maintain a military industrial complex capable of defending itself. Sometimes, it comes down to "Better the devil you know."

Added: Thursday 13 July 2017 07:54:15 MST


Submitted by: HSH50fan
From: Bottom of the map

Loved that H50europe tumblr post. I doubt I would agree with the writer on anything else about the show, but his/her take on the departures and the fallout was spot on.

Added: Tuesday 11 July 2017 20:59:51 MST


Submitted by: H50 1.0 FOREVER
From: Under the Live Oak Trees

Acting is a highly competitive business, regardless of one's cultural or national background. As the first article said, each actor is a business unto himself. So true, just as each musician or writer or artist . . . or engineer or architect . . . is a business unto himself. That's self-employment! Has been for years; will be for years.

To attach cultural or national background to every disagreement is just plain childish. There are so many factors, the main one being that the actors involved think they deserve a raise. Again, people have been asking for raises for years; will be for years. And, of course, we'd all like to be earning as much as the top banana. If we can get them to throw in a golden parachute clause, so much the better.

So, what's the issue? Oh, yeah! Right! The media needs an issue to help them sell their own businesses. Unfortunately, they jumped the shark when they started creating issues where none exist.

Added: Tuesday 11 July 2017 10:27:57 MST


Submitted by: Mr. Mike
From: Vancouver

Two articles:

https://alexoloughlinintensestudy.wordpress.com/2017/07/11/h50-the-seven-year-itch/

http://deadline.com/2017/07/hawaii-five-o-exits-race-or-money-slimmed-down-spider-man-soars-1202126154/

From the second:

I remember when George Litto, the former rep of Hawaii Five-O creator Leonard Freeman, shopped that property initially as a movie. Every studio wanted it. Litto had total control, too much for the liking of those studios, which is why it languished so long. I recall him telling me once he intended to make a deal that would allow his family to steer the ensuing movies/TV shows long-term the way Cubby Broccoli handed down James Bond to his family. He subsequently got in a legal battle with the estate, and he isn't steering the series now. He had leverage, until he didn't.

Added: Tuesday 11 July 2017 08:06:39 MST


Submitted by: John
From: Maine

No one is pure anything, we are all a mix of only God knows what and that is a good thing. Every American should have equal obligations and rights regardless of their race, gender etc.

We need to concentrate on our shared nationality as Americans rather than looking for ways to subdivide us. The original concept of the great melting pot needs to be reinvigorated (turn the temperature up ;) by having our laws, our education system and our cultural institutions encourage assimilation into the greater American culture which is the best of all the different ways of life our ancestors came from.

The alternative where we subdivide into more and more "special" groups is a fools errand that can only end in disaster. I subscribe to MLK and his vision of America where we are all equal before the law and judged as individuals on our own merit.

Sorry for the tirade! This issue is near to my heart!

Added: Tuesday 11 July 2017 07:57:02 MST


Submitted by: ringfire211
From: Philadelphia

I guess that explains why Niihau is called "The Forbidden Island". Now I really want to go visit there! lol

Added: Monday 10 July 2017 08:32:34 MST


Submitted by: Mr. Mike
From: Vancouver

The departure of Daniel Dae Kim and Grace Park has made me think about the issue of "who is a Hawaiian?"

This has some relevance to what's going on recently, because there have been complaints in the past about the fact a Hawaiian actor or even someone better qualified than the Korean Park was not on the original "core four" team and whether they will be hiring someone to fill such a role now. (Park's character seemingly had some "Hawaiian" connection by virtue of her last name, Kalakaua, though she was a "cousin" of Chin Ho Kelly, whose ancestry was supposedly Chinese ... but in one show, Chin Ho ridiculed McGarrett for being a "haole.")

Are there any blood quantum laws to determine who is "Hawaiian" like certain North American Indian tribes use to determine qualification by ancestry in relation to tribal membership? I don't know.

I was discussing this in the last few days with a friend (not a native Hawaiian) who lived in Hawaii for some time, who sent me the following e-mail:

=====

What I know about Hawaiian ethnicity is that there are either almost none or no people alive today who are pure Hawaiian. Interestingly, Moe Keale's Wikipedia page notes that he was "one of the few people born in the 20th century of pure Hawaiian ancestry."

I also know that no one is allowed to set foot on Niihau who does not have at least some Hawaiian blood running through their veins. A friend of mine had a friend living in Hawaii his entire life. He was of Chinese ancestry. During his military service (I think either Korean or Vietnam), he flew helicopters. At one point, he and his copilot were flying over Niihau and decided to make an "emergency" landing on an empty beach just to have the experience of being able to say they'd been to Niihau. They landed, and within three minutes, armed police officers were there asking them what they thought they were doing and go away. They complied, LOL.

I found this tidbit in a newspaper article while searching for more information on this:

"Native Hawaiian" is a racial classification recognized by the United States. In the 2010 Census: 527,077 people reported that they are Native Hawaiian alone or of a mixed race that includes Native Hawaiian. There now may be as few as 8,000 pure-blood Native Hawaiians remaining in the world.

It comes from this article, which has a lot of interesting information:

https://wanderwisdom.com/travel-destinations/Hawaii-and-Native-Hawaiians-What-You-May-Not-Know

There is also this found when I did a little Google searching:

In 1974, the Native American Programs Act was amended to include native Hawaiians. This paved the way for native Hawaiians to become eligible for some, but not all, federal assistance programs originally intended for Continental Native Americans. Today, Title 45 CFR Part 1336.62 defines a Native Hawaiian as "an individual any of whose ancestors were natives of the area which consists of the Hawaiian Islands prior to 1778."

When I lived in Hawaii full time, I worked for a law firm where one of the other secretaries was a woman of pure Hawaiian blood. She had been born on Niihau and had family there. She used to talk about the ali'i nui and "the 400." I can't remember the exact meaning of "the 400" except it was something to do with the number of people alive at the time who could trace their ancestry back to Hawaiian royalty. She claimed to be one of "the 400."

The famed singer, Israel Kamakawiwo'ole (coincidentally, Moe Keale's nephew), was the son of a man born on Niihau. I believe he was either fully 100% Hawaiian or very close.

In all the time I've spent in Hawaii, since the early 1980s, there has always been a strong movement to restore the monarchy and return Hawaii to independence. It seems like every year, it gets a little more popular and gains a little more ground. I think Hawaii may some day return to an independent territory or something like that. Daniel Inouye, the late senator from Hawaii, was a strong proponent for independence of some kind. He was always proposing mandates to give tax breaks, land ownership, and other rights specifically to those with at least some Hawaiian blood.

Real estate in Hawaii is much more complicated thatn in most other states in the U.S. Great swathes of land are owned by various trusts that belong to old Hawaiian families. It's called fee-simple real estate. If you buy a house in fee simple, you own the building, but not the land. The land is leased out for 99 years at a time and you simply purchase a right to the lease when you buy the house. If the lease expires during your ownership of the building and the leaseholder chooses not to renew to you, they must buy your building, but you are otherwise out of luck if you want to try to stay. You have no right to the land itself. A lot of the trusts have been sold and many individual pieces of land have been sold off because the people who own it need the money.

As far as ethnic diversity on the show, pffft. That was always an issue. I know from having lived there that we haoles are welcome as tourists but despised as residents. I personally think Hawaii should secede from the union and go back to being an independent monarchy. The British and the U.S. did them very wrong back in the 1890s and it's time to reverse that. As far as I know, there's never been a Native Hawaiian governor, although looking at the names of the lieutenant governors, I think a couple of those might have been Native Hawaiians.

Every year on King Kamehameha's birthday, there's a huge parade. Part of the parade is a car with the current heir to the monarchy, as well as "princes" and "princesses" on horses. If they went back to the monarchy tomorrow, they've got them waiting in the wings and ready to go.

Added: Monday 10 July 2017 00:55:20 MST


Submitted by: Vrinda
From: NJ

In July of 1974, when the original show was in the middle of its seventh season, Jack Lord was making $30,000 per episode. In today's money, that's $148,623.28. That's an estimated $148,620 per episode in today's money. It's less than what Daniel and Grace were making before CBS made that offer they rejected - and Jack was the star, co-executive producer, and co-owner of the show. Jack was worth more than that, but he never complained about his salary or ever asked for money, unlike other actors at CBS at that time.

Grace does far less on the new show than Daniel and the others, and her contributions are chicken scratch compared to what Jack did for the original, yet she makes more per episode than he did. That only tells you how unrealistic actors' salaries are now.

Added: Saturday 08 July 2017 18:25:21 MST


Submitted by: H50 1.0 FOREVER
From: Under the Live Oak Trees

Re: the LA Times statement, "Decades of racist caricatures -- think Mickey Rooney playing the buck-toothed Mr. Yunioshi in "Breakfast at Tiffany's" -- have given way to an industry that is more inclusive, but where leading roles remain scarce." - - In most cases, for a member of such a group to have a starring role, he/she must create a production with a script that calls for a member of the group to have a starring role. Needless to say, as difficult as it is to have a production aired, this doesn't happen very often. An example is Jane Fonda and Lily Tomlin going in together as senior citizens to create and produce "Grace and Frankie." They probably saw the same thing Asians see: Hollywood isn't very interested in producing television or movies about their demographic.

Added: Saturday 08 July 2017 17:28:17 MST


Submitted by: Mr. Mike
From: Vancouver

Los Angeles Times weighs in on the DDK/GP departure:

http://www.latimes.com/business/hollywood/la-fi-ct-hawaii-five-0-asian-actors-20170708-story.html

Added: Saturday 08 July 2017 13:53:49 MST


Submitted by: ringfire211
From: Philadelphia

How I yearn for the simpler times when no one was complaining about inequality and folks were just happy to be working. Did Kam Fong or Zulu or Al Harrington complain about racial inequality or that they weren't getting paid the same as Jack Lord? Or even JMac? No, they knew they were second bananas on the show and that was that. Was Michael Douglas getting paid the same as Karl Malden? Of course not, and he wasn't even a "second banana" (despite being in the Supporting Actor category at Emmy awards time).

Things sure were simpler.

Added: Saturday 08 July 2017 11:53:33 MST


Submitted by: Mr. Mike
From: Vancouver

My TV industry pal e-mailed me as follows. This was received yesterday, but there is kind of a "reverse echo" with some of the things which Todd says below in his message which I got this morning...

Seven year contracts is pretty standard as these things go. The way it works is, every actor on a new show signs for 5 years on day one.

If the show is a success, there's an unwritten rule the studio or network or whoever renews the contract for a further 5 years at much bigger money at the end of year 2. That's why on a lot of shows -- Friends, Seinfeld etc. -- the contract extension at the end of year 7 can be a real bitch to settle.

I'm sure everyone is lying, at least in part. I find it hard to believe DDK would blow up a cushy paycheque over $5,000. I also find it unlikely that CBS would offer a supporting player anything near in the neighborhood of $195,000 if O'Loughlin and Caan are getting $200,000. Kim may be a better actor/character, etc., but that's not how these things work. The lead, deserved or not, always gets special treatment. That's the business. As for profit points, that would be to O'Loughlin's agent's credit; he was a rising star at the time and Moonves wanted badly to get him his own show (that's why he was allowed to star in a couple of CBS flops before Five-O hit). Caan was obviously grandfathered in on his surname and family connections.

It makes total sense to me that Park's issue was more about her wanting to do fewer episodes, though I'm a little surprised by the ballsy demand that it be "less than half the episodes," though again that may just be empty rumor or blatantly untrue. If I were her, the way I would've looked at it is to keep working in Hawaii and take whatever money CBS was willing to throw at her, because I doubt those offers will be there 5 years from now. And if she's already made enough money from Five-0 she should just go, and not be half-in and half-out. I think she's a lot less radical about the whole Asian/equality casting thing than DDK, though I'm sure it's on her mind from time to time.

By the way, you're probably aware, but this very same issue came up on The X-Files around year 3 or 4. Gillian Anderson wanted pay equity with Duchovny (the gap was substantial in years 1 and 2, because Duchovny was a much bigger name when the show was first cast).

What made that crisis particularly edgy was that Duchovny was offended that Anderson wanted parity, because he felt he had paid his dues prior to the show being made, whereas she hadn't, really. Anderson was annoyed that Duchovny was annoyed and felt it was none of his business what she made on the show and what business was it of his, etc., etc., even though by demanding pay equity, she was kind of making his salary her business (the fans agreed with her, for most part, and sided with her).

The way that got resolved in the end was that she agreed to do the (first) movie for big money (the Fox studio badly wanted a movie, and couldn't very well do it without Scully), and she got pay equity by around year 4 or 5.

Duchovny kind of won out in the end, though, because, as you may recall, after the show moved to LA in year 6, he kind of took a "semi-retirement" in years 8 and 9 by only appearing in a couple of episodes both those seasons.

By the way, one last thing on Grace Park: all actors, even leads, get paid by the episode, not the season. So if Grace Park did only 10 episodes, for example, she'd only get paid for 10. Whether she would be making Alex O'Loughlin money for those 10 or Masi Oka money would be what was being negotiated. Of course, for all we know, maybe Lenkov was tired of writing for her character. Or, conversely, maybe he wanted to expand her character, have her be key in every episode. I know what I would've done. It's Hawaii! I would've showed off her bod at every opportunity, sexist pig that I am. Never going to see R-rated stuff on CBS, though, let alone X-rated.

A lot of those comments about this whole issue of DDK and GP leaving are really imbecilic, by the way, as they always are. One that jumped out at me, though, is how you can have a show set in Hawaii and have the ensemble be all-white. Then again, there's nothing preventing Lenkov -- other than his own limited imagination -- from creating 2 or 3 more Asian/Hawaiian characters, and then hiring relatively unknown Asian actors -- for, ahem, peanuts -- to play them. I could see fans getting tired in a hurry of a straight O'Loughlin-Caan comedy hour. DDK and Grace Park clearly added a lot of "color" to the show.

Added: Saturday 08 July 2017 06:39:47 MST


Submitted by: Todd
From: Los Angeles

I'm starting to wonder if DDK and GP were already pretty much checked out of Five-0 in the first place, and already planning to leave. Perhaps they felt the show was going to end after Season 8 anyway, and they saw it was time to bail out and do other things. (I believe this is why James MacArthur left after Season 11 of the original.)

So why this whole racial inequality bit?

I'm guessing that they decided it was worth staying if their pay was elevated to that of O'Loughlin and Caan, but otherwise not. So they demanded it, CBS decided to give them a huge pay hike, but stopped a little short of equaling the pay of Alex and Scott.

Interestingly, an article in Variety said that they were offered $195,000 per episode instead of the $200,000 for Alex and Scott. Clearly the $5k per episode was peanuts compared to the overall budget of the show, so stopping short was clearly just to leave Alex and Scott with the feeling that they're still the highest paid.

Here's the Variety article: http://variety.com/2017/tv/news/hawaii-5-0-daniel-dae-kim-grace-park-deals-1202488221/

DDK and GP were likely bitter that CBS was stopping short so close to the goal post, and left with some bitterness. They probably did spin themselves up into believing that it was a racial thing -- that they were still paid slightly less just to give the white stars the feeling they were superior.

Thus, neither DDK nor GP has corrected the media claims that it was a racial thing, which is very telling. Their silence on that matter speaks volumes.

Here is another interesting article: https://nextshark.com/hawaii-five-0-creator-just-threw-daniel-dae-kim-grace-park-bus/

There has to be more to this situation than meets the eye.

I've never seen it where supporting characters are offered 97.5% the pay of main characters, and I've especially never seen it where those supporting characters REJECT that unprecedented offer, claiming it's not enough.

That's simply not how TV contracts have ever worked.

I'm sure the full story will leak out eventually.

Added: Saturday 08 July 2017 01:22:33 MST


Submitted by: Mr. Mike
From: Vancouver

The SOSF discussions from the phpBB forum have all been archived now here:

http://www.fiveohomepage.com/phpBB-archived/OtherShows/

Added: Friday 07 July 2017 15:49:28 MST


Submitted by: ringfire211
From: Philadelphia

Hey John, welcome back. Thought you had disappeared after the forum change. I miss the old setup but it is what it is. This works too. Mike even has a link up top for "Other Shows" where we can continue our SOSF discussions. On that page there's an Archive link too for all the SOSF talk we did so that's not lost. He has all his SOSF reviews that he did here http://thestreetsofsanfrancisco.info

Added: Friday 07 July 2017 14:19:09 MST


Submitted by: ringfire211
From: Philadelphia

"It was a pleasure watching Masi Oka breathing life into this character in each episode."
:D Right, by doing his "rain man" schtick again and again?? Puhleese, the dude is a geeky coroner. Why does everybody need some stupid character arc these days?? It's so dumb! I bet the janitor who empties the Five-0 office's waste baskets every night has a character arc too, doesn't he?

But I do agree with that poster on the DDK situation. That's an ass thing to do on DDK's part - to make this into a race equality issue now that he's gone, when he never even once let out a peep about this during the last 7 seasons. If you want to go because of other projects on your horizon that's fine. If you want to make a plug for your new project while you're explaining your leaving the show that's fine too. But don't go pulling some race card for no reason at all. That's a vile thing to do!

Added: Friday 07 July 2017 12:44:04 MST


Submitted by: Mr. Mike
From: Vancouver

An interesting comment:

http://h50europe.tumblr.com/post/162681695763/you-know-the-feeling-where-there-is-this-mental

You know the feeling where there is this mental itch and you can't help but have to scratch it? Once more, we are speaking up and share our thoughts on the latest developments concerning the departures of DDK and Grace Park. Don't worry this is not going to be the never-ending story. For us, it means coming to a closure with it.

Remember last year when a great guy left our beloved show? Masi Oka took us all by surprise when he opened up about his departure from the show. "I just thought the character went through a major journey," he told EW. "Character-wise, I felt like Max had done too much of everything he can do." Masi had nothing more to add to it, and the plot had come full circle. With teary eyes, we saw him depart in episode 7.13. It was a proper wake for a guy so humble and endearing. His character, coroner Max Bergman, often made us smile with his quirky sense of humor. It was a pleasure watching Masi Oka breathing life into this character in each episode. When he left, it happened quietly. He didn't brag about his production company or the upcoming projects he already had in the pipeline. For me, Masi left like footprints in the sand being washed away by the sea. He was truly a class act. We still miss you, Masi.

And then, there were the departures of Grace Park (Kono Kalakaua) and Daniel Dae Kim (Chin Ho Kelly). These departures caused an outcry in an already troubled fandom and shocked most of us to the core. According to VARIETY, CBS offered "large and significant salary increases" to keep Daniel Dae Kim and Grace Park in the cast of Hawaii Five-0 after Kim had said via Facebook that he was unable to come to a deal with CBS to return to the long-running series.

BUMMER!

This was not the icing on the cake. It came later when – all of a sudden – the race card was thrown into this game. We stood there gaping because we weren't aware of all the fly-by-night fans that suddenly jumped on this bandwagon and blew this matter way out of proportion.

As for the past few months, DDK has grabbed a lot of attention for being the role model to fight for equality of Asian-Americans in Hollywood. He got awards and prizes for it. In the meantime, Kim was also revving up his activity as a producer. His 3AD banner (production company) landed a new medical drama series on ABC for the coming season, The Good Doctor, starring Freddie Highmore.

Congrats! DDK is a helluva business man. I could adore him for the promotion stunt he pulled with this kind of action. Never before in his entire career has this guy gotten this much attention. If that wasn't well-calculated, why else hadn't he spoken up earlier about this matter? Over the past seven years, we've never heard him talking about feeling discriminated against or being underpaid.

I feel so sorry for the man that he bottled up his frustration and swallowed his pride to work on a show that has shown more diversity than any other I know. He must have been struggling to go to work and see his "white co-stars" working their asses off for this show on a daily basis.

Some people are predictable; some still surprise me. He's one of the latter. While he praises the cast and crew in his statement on FB, his fans are (suddenly) bashing the remaining cast to the utmost.

And that is the reason, I said earlier, that I could adore him. The whole scenario as it is being presented to us looks orchestrated in a way. After one of the most successful seasons of the show, he and Grace Park are throwing in the towel. We don't know anything about Grace's motivation, so we are not starting to throw around rumors.

IMHO, DDK killed it and poured gasoline onto the already spreading wildfire with the last paragraph of his FB statement.

"I'll end by saying that though transitions can be difficult, I encourage us all to look beyond the disappointment of this moment to the bigger picture. The path to equality is rarely easy (this must've felt like a blow to the gut for the remaining cast and crew). But I hope you can be excited for the future. I am. 5-0 continues on after one of its strongest seasons (like we didn't know that already. To me, this sounds more pathetic and like a mockery)."

Then, he slipped back into the part of the shrewd business man he is by promoting himself:

"I've got new acting projects on the horizon, and as a producer, my company, 3AD, has its first show, THE GOOD DOCTOR, set to air this fall on ABC. I hope you'll tune in. There's a lot to look forward to, and I'll be sure to share it with you."

We wish him (and also Grace) the best of luck for the future. We are sorry he had to endure all the discrimination over the past seven years and never LOST a word about it.

We apologize for throwing up in our mouths – a little - when we were reading all the hatred messages produced by a bunch of spineless keyboard warriors who feel nothing but safe behind their screens as well as the "anonymity of the www." These days, it's easy to spread hatred and bully people you don't even know. Who are you to judge someone by his appearance or behavior? You are no better than the people you judge. Ever heard of reverse discrimination? What comes around goes around.

We also apologize that you had to deal with the entire verbal diarrhea. If you came that far, thank you for taking your time to read. However, please spare us your unqualified hatred messages. We know them by heart. They are getting old.

To everyone who feels compelled to stop watching the show: Goodbye! No need to tell this to your handful of followers; you won't be missed, and they probably won't even know what you're talking about because they don't give a damn about your feelings, anyway.

To those of us who survived this circus and still stand with the show and the remaining cast: CONGRATS. Well done, ladies and gentleman. You'll earn another action-packed season and some changes in the cast that will open up new possibilities and interesting plots. Looking more than forward to it!

Added: Friday 07 July 2017 08:08:07 MST


Submitted by: honu59
From: New York

Ringfire, I love your idea, especially to have a plus-sized woman named Truck. Why are all the women on this show skinny-skinny? That doesn't reflect real life. Yet it's okay to have Jerry and Kamekona. And Jerry has a badge? He'd never pass the HPD PT test, if they have such a test.

Added: Friday 07 July 2017 03:23:36 MST


Submitted by: John Chergi
From: Pittsburgh PA

HFO Regulars And Fans.

Best way to end HFO would have Abby and Chin go on a bird watching tour and take pictures of an old sugar mill. There would be a secret criminal mastermind involved who wants everybody in the tour killed. Their cameras and film destroyed. This criminal mastermind Helix would suspend Abby and Chin over an active volcano and have a battle to the death with McG.

Added: Thursday 06 July 2017 22:59:38 MST


Submitted by: ringfire211
From: Philadelphia

I think it would be hilarious if they pulled the "old Five-O" stunt regarding the departure of Chin and Kono. Meaning not a single mention of what happened to them. Season 8 begins with a new character named Ben and another new character named Truck (a super-sized woman of course). No mention of where these 2 new characters came from. Boom, they're just there. Kono who? Chin who? :D

Of course this won't happen in this day and age since every character's motivation and personal life needs to scrutinized under the microscope in excruciating detail. It's prime-time soap is what it is.

Added: Thursday 06 July 2017 19:36:41 MST


Submitted by: Barnzoboy
From: Minnesota

Would anyone know where a guy could get some large size, high-resolution digital photos of Steve McGarrett/Jack Lord? Just picking images off the Internet are way too small of files for what I'm looking to do, which is create a life-like size Fathead wall poster. Respond here if you know of anything out there. Thanks - Jay

Added: Thursday 06 July 2017 17:47:30 MST


Submitted by: Mr. Mike
From: Vancouver

I wonder how they will resolve the plot threads with Chin and Kono...

For example, Chin and Abby will be gone to San Francisco at the beginning of the show, not necessarily with Chin having made up his mind yet about the job of starting a Five-Zero-like task force there which was offered to him in the last episode of last season. Then McG gets a phone call saying that Abby and/or someone in the SFPD (or is it the FBI?) really convinced him to stay there so he is going "to give it a shot" (no pun intended).

As far as Kono is concerned, she will go to Carson City but she will be murdered by the local sex trafficking gangsters (this could probably be done with a body double in a brief scene). Either McG will go to Carson City to claim her body or she will be returned home, there will be the usual police funeral, McG will look sad, etc.

Added: Thursday 06 July 2017 16:34:14 MST


Submitted by: Mr. Mike
From: Vancouver

Lenkov has more to say:

https://twitter.com/PLenkov/status/883051023299788800/photo/1

Added: Thursday 06 July 2017 16:03:07 MST


Submitted by: Mr. Mike
From: Vancouver

Various news about the DDK/GP departure. You may have to copy and paste these URLs into the browser...

Original Variety story (may have been revised):
http://variety.com/2017/tv/news/daniel-dae-kim-grace-park-hawaii-five-0-1202484329/

Update to Variety story:
http://variety.com/2017/tv/news/hawaii-5-0-daniel-dae-kim-grace-park-deals-1202488221/

Five-Zero blogger reaction (may not work from computer, only from phone):
https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=1075507175937444&set=a.110684929086345.18882.100004345150715&type=3
(and more recent reaction)
https://www.facebook.com/Five0Redux/posts/1653194848027069


Lenkov's initial comments to fan reaction on Twitter (he's not going to get rich if he's paid by the word):
https://twitter.com/PLenkov/status/882042365497692160
https://twitter.com/PLenkov/status/882042231703523328
https://twitter.com/PLenkov/status/882037503716335616

More recent comments from Lenkov:
https://twitter.com/PLenkov/status/882954419314106368
https://twitter.com/PLenkov/status/882950148355051520

More reaction to departure on Facebook (from FOX!!):
https://www.facebook.com/JulieChangFox11/videos/vb.124663961040898/805250156315605/?type=2&theater#

Added: Thursday 06 July 2017 11:25:16 MST


Submitted by: ringfire211
From: Philadelphia

"Did Goober and Gomer get paid as much as Andy and Barney?"
SHAZAAAM!!

Added: Thursday 06 July 2017 11:12:31 MST


Submitted by: dq
From: usa

You're so right Mr. Mike. After all, AOL is an Australian playing an American. Go figure.

Added: Thursday 06 July 2017 08:00:20 MST


Submitted by: Rick
From: Newport Beach

I saw a comment on the innerwebs that pretty much sums it up. My apologies if it's already been posted here somewhere below...

"Did Goober and Gomer get paid as much as Andy and Barney?"

Added: Wednesday 05 July 2017 22:31:01 MST


Submitted by: Mr. Mike
From: Vancouver

Someone who I know who is in the TV industry sent me the following:

"In the past -- and there's no reason to think it's changed now -- Les Moonves [Chairman of the Board, President, and Chief Executive Officer of CBS Corporation] has had 100% control over casting decisions and, by association, contract extensions. It sounds way below his pay grade (and it is) but it's well known that he's always been obsessed with casting on his shows, and it's one thing he stayed close to, even as he has moved up the corporate ladder. This [business with DDK and GP not returning] sounds totally like Les Moonves. Dae Kim and Grace Park clearly held out for what they thought they were worth, and Moonves, not Lenkov or Kurtzman, disagreed."

I had to cut out a lot of what this guy told me, but there is info on the public record which related to what he was talking about. Go and do a Google search for

"george eads" moonves

with the quote marks. These articles relate to George Eads on CSI asking for more money and getting fired in 2004.

Ironically, Eads is now second banana on Lenkov's reboot of MacGyver, a CBS product.

Added: Wednesday 05 July 2017 15:49:28 MST


Submitted by: Mr. Mike
From: Vancouver

sandee204 on Instagram reportedly sent DDK (who is also on this site) the following message:

I really hope the best for you and Grace in your new opportunities. However, I really wish you had addressed the way this situation has been made into a racial issue. This is a business issue. It has nothing to do with you being Asian American, and I think you and Grace should step forward and say so. I'm seeing headlines like "Asian Actors Let Go from Hawaii 5-0 While White Actors Earn More." That's ridiculous. This was a contractual issue between you, your agents, and the network. You and Grace were supporting characters on the show. You've been in the business long enough to understand that! When you did "The King and I," did the actress playing Tuptim earn as much as you? No--you were the star of the show. How is this any different? I think you owe it to the producers, cast, crew, and fans of Hawaii 5-0 to help stop these untrue negative headlines. That show employs more Asian actors and crew members than any other show on TV, I'm sure. It's just wrong to let your legacy be tarnished by these false racism claims.

Added: Wednesday 05 July 2017 15:42:50 MST


Submitted by: ringfire211
From: Philadelphia

I read DDK's fb post and what caught my eye was the last paragraph where he says we should look ahead past the disappointment of the present and that "the path to equality is rarely easy". So apparently "equality" (or lack of) is the cause of his departure? Is this monetary equality? Racial equality? Like maybe he wants higher billing or more screen time?

Of course I always roll my eyes whenever I hear that word "equality" these days. It's so overplayed. Everyone and their dog demands equality these days. I feel like a woman today so I'm going into the ladies bathroom today. I demand equality!!! The word doesn't even mean anything anymore. As far as the pay issue goes Todd already pointed out very effectively how your billing affects how much you get paid. It's clear as rain. Equality doesn't apply here. Every work place has "inequality" when it comes to our paychecks. It's by design. As it should be. There is no social injustice to battle there. It's life so get over it, DDK (if that's his issue of course).

Added: Wednesday 05 July 2017 11:59:11 MST


Submitted by: honu59
From: New York

"And then there is DDK, who is Korean, playing a character in the show who is Chinese and GP, also Korean, playing someone who is supposedly "Hawaiian"!"

In the original show, Chin Ho Kelly and Kono Kalakaua were not cousins as they are in the reboot. Chin was Chinese/Irish and Kono was native Hawaiian (perhaps remotely descended from royalty?). Both Kam Fong and Zulu had the appearance of the heritage of the characters they played.

Since the new Chin and Kono are cousins, perhaps they wanted the actors to appear more like they shared the same heritage, so both Korean? Who knows?

Added: Wednesday 05 July 2017 11:56:40 MST


Submitted by: Mr. Mike
From: Vancouver

In a posting on his Facebook page early this morning, DDK had this to say (the full posting is much longer):

I will not be returning to Hawaii Five-0 when production starts next week. Though I made myself available to come back, CBS and I weren't able to agree to terms on a new contract, so I made the difficult choice not to continue.

This is very diplomatic, as you would expect from DDK, but you will notice that the word "money" is not mentioned anywhere. There are lots of reasons that issues with a contract could cause someone to be upset. For example, maybe they wanted him to participate less, working only a couple of episodes in the next season, maybe they wanted him to work more, like the contract was for another 20 years or something! So DDK has not completely quashed rumors with his statement.

Quite a few people are dragging racism into the controversy, but this is nothing new. There have been issues about racism ever since the show started in terms of the choice of actors and the fact that like the original show, the two leads are both white.

But bringing racism into the show opens up a whole other can of worms. For example:

- How do you define what a "Hawaiian" is if you are going to complain about Hawaiian people not being properly represented on the show? Should people have to take DNA tests to get a job on a show like this?

- is it OK for someone who is from a certain Asian ethnic group to play a part which is someone from a different Asian ethnic group? A classic example of this was in the film Memoirs of a Geisha, where a Chinese actress played the lead, who was obviously Japanese. Lots of Japanese people made a big stink about this. And then there is DDK, who is Korean, playing a character in the show who is Chinese and GP, also Korean, playing someone who is supposedly "Hawaiian" in some way, based on her last name (though the two are cousins)! To me this is verging on the racist concept, usually espoused by white people, that "they all look the same." The fact that Asian actors can get roles at all these days seems to override the fact that, with their participation, those roles may not be particularly "authentic," the case of one of them taking a "Hawaiian" part in itself being kind of "racist" or maybe I should say "ethnic groupist." This kind of thinking can get ridiculous, though. For example, if a white guy wants to play a white guy of a different ethnic group, for example, should an Irish actor play a German, a French actor play someone from Poland, etc.?

Added: Wednesday 05 July 2017 09:11:23 MST


Submitted by: Todd


From: Disappointed that you killed the forum. I believe the issues could have been resolved.

Anyway, regarding Daniel Dae Kim and Grace Park departing Five-Zero, I think that's going to put the nail in the show's coffin. It's possible that season 8 was going to be the last one anyway. However, this really smacks of "More than one series regular leaves a long-running show, and it tries to reinvent itself", which rarely ends well.

I reject the idea that DDK and GP "deserve" equal pay. The term "equal pay" has been thrown around a lot in recent times, and on its face, appears to be a noble concept.

However, it is wholly unrealistic.

No two employees of any business have identical value. Employee pay should be a matter between the employee and employer, and no one automatically "deserves" the amount someone else is getting paid.

DDK and GP are not being paid less because they're Asian. They are being paid less because they are third-tier stars of the show.

Alex O'Loughlin is the main star of the show, and Scott Caan is one level below him. Daniel Dae Kim and Grace Park are the next level down, followed by the rest of the main credited cast (Chi McBride, Jorge Garcia, etc), followed by the recurring guest stars (Kamekona, etc).

Without knowing the pay structures of the show, traditionally the main star of the show gets the highest pay, and it goes downward from there, in the manner described above.

It is very rare that a star will take a pay cut so others can be paid more. This is because the star feels that the production/network can much more afford to pay the co-stars what they want, and feel that such a pay cut is unnecessary (which is usually true).

When a pay cut does occur, it almost never brings everyone to parity

A good example was the pay cut recently taken by the five main "Big Bang Theory" stars -- Jim Parsons, Johnny Galecki, Kaley Cuoco, Kunal Nayyar and Simon Helberg. They were all receiving $1 million per episode, while co-stars Melissa Rauch and Mayim Bialik (both of whom joined the series later) were receiving $200,000 per episode.

The five main stars agreed to each take a $100,000 per episode cut, with the agreement that the money would be transferred to Rauch and Bialik. However, that still left the five main stars making $900,000 per episode, and Rauch/Bialik making $450,000 per episode -- half of what they others were making!

So how come Rauch and Bialik were okay making half of what the other five were making (even after the redistribution of salary), and DDK/GP were so unhappy being paid just 10-15% less than Caan and O'Loughlin?

I am actually surprised that DDK and GP were making that close to the salary of the other two, to be honest.

With that said, I think fans are going to be very unhappy about this, and might start tuning out. THis will especially become likely if Scott Caan keeps missing a lot of episodes as he has lately, which would leave O'Loughlin as the only "original" people could count on seeing each week.

I am guessing they will attempt to replace DDK and GP with younger actors -- one male, one female. The cast of Five-Zero is now entirely over 40, and they might want to inject some youth into the show.

Added: Tuesday 04 July 2017 03:18:22 MST


Submitted by: Mr. Mike
From: Vancouver

The level of outrage over DDK and GP leaving the show has increased somewhat in the last few days.

Here are some tweets about this, forwarded to me by a friend:

https://twitter.com/DragonWench1/status/881424988116590593
https://twitter.com/ProfessorDare/status/881217029612744709
https://twitter.com/Brownie63113/status/881196674210770944
https://twitter.com/oforrestjr/status/881750617424764928
https://twitter.com/cparkeast1/status/880912360176836608

Some people think that Alex O and Scott are being mean because they won't take a salary cut so the other two can have the same pay as them. Seriously, anyone complaining about this must be a total idiot. Anyway, isn't that like ... "communism"? ;)

It is hard to figure out who has to be to "blamed" for this mess, though it is not reasonable to consider that DDK or GP are the "bad guys." DDK is especially a nice fellow, and even though many people are saying "Well, I really am not too sad to see GP go," she is not a bad person either.

The big question is, when did CBS know that DDK and GP were not coming back? A blogger is suggesting that the issue was not money as reported in Variety. I find it hard to believe that there was no mention of money anywhere, since the duo's contracts were reportedly for 7 years, and 7 years are up. I'm sure CBS could have bankrolled at least one more year on the show for both of them. If CBS knew they weren't coming back weeks or months ago, then why didn't the show just wrap up instead of taking us on yet another tangent with new characters, new plot lines and other stupidity?

Of course, the direction of the show has been seriously screwed up for a very long time, with the writers' approach seeming to be either "throw enough crap on the wall and some of it will stick" or "we're just making this up as we go along," despite Lenkov saying words to the effect that they know what the "big picture" of the show will be, i.e, where the plot will lead, how it will all end, etc., etc.

No doubt people connected with the show's production will try and put on a good face and continue the "ohana" vibes for next season, but I think the departure of these two has put a big dent in the show's morale. Will there be a screening of the premiere for the 8th season on the beach in September as has happened in previous years? I don't think so! I can just see Lenkov up on stage smiling, saying that everything is swell, but people in the audience will probably be screaming at him!

I sure wouldn't like to be any new actors that are coming on to replace DDK and GP (dunno about DDK, there was a casting call for GP's replacement already). It will be like when Michael Douglas left Streets of San Francisco because he got opportunities to be a producer and so forth and Richard Hatch took over his job. Hatch said that he was really freaking out when this happened, because there were big shoes to fill.

By the way, I can't believe some people are actually using the word "grieving" when discussing DDK and GP's departure. Hello, "grieving" is used if a crackpot runs over and kills someone you know or are related to with a truck! Sheesh.

Added: Monday 03 July 2017 08:39:11 MST


Submitted by: Mr. Mike
From: Vancouver

Michael Timothy sends along a couple of "believe it or not" photos: #1 and #2.

Maybe they should amalgamate with the Kojak and Streets of San Francisco driving schools, where you can learn to:

- never parallel park!
- drive up to a crime scene at full speed, brake and never hit anybody or anything!
- burn rubber every time you start driving!
- double park on a street without penalty whenever necessary!

Added: Sunday 02 July 2017 13:56:45 MST


Submitted by: ringfire211
From: Philadelphia

Thanks Mike! :) I also don't see our SOSF discussions or any of your previous episode reviews. Just "Flags of Terror". I believe I saw all your episode reviews somewhere archived yesterday but I guess you haven't added a link to them yet.

Again, no pressure...

Added: Sunday 02 July 2017 13:30:10 MST


Submitted by: Mr. Mike
From: Vancouver

OK, Season 7 vs. Season 8 discussion is here:

http://www.fiveohomepage.com/phpBB-archived/

Added: Sunday 02 July 2017 11:34:53 MST


Submitted by: Mr. Mike
From: Vancouver

Yeah, yeah, whatever. :!devil:

If you want me to archive certain things posted in the new forum (phpBB) for the last year or so, I am open to suggestions other than the one you have just mentioned.

It will be posted in the "Archives" section, not here. But note that all of the previous stuff in the archives is not accessible at the moment because of technical issues which are going to take a >long< time to fix.

You should notice a link at the top of this page for discussing "other" TV shows. If you don't see that, then refresh the cache in your browser or phone (this might take a few attempts before it shows up correctly).

By the way, I would really appreciate it if people would stop accessing this site through the http://www.mjq.net/fiveo link and instead use http://www.fiveohomepage.com. Please delete any references to the first of these in your bookmarks or favorites and then create new links.

Thanks!

Added: Sunday 02 July 2017 09:47:27 MST


Submitted by: ringfire211
From: Philadelphia

Hey John, hopefully we can continue our Five-O seasons 7 vs 8 showdown. Hopefully Mr. Mike has archived that thread and can restore it here somewhere.

No pressure, Mr. Mike ;)

Added: Sunday 02 July 2017 08:29:07 MST


Submitted by: John Chergi
From: Pittsburgh PA

Mr. Mike and HFO Fans
Hope you have a good Fourth Of July holiday. [In Canada our national holiday is July 1st... - MQ] It reminded me that HFO had some birthday episodes like Blind Tiger and a few King Kamehamehea days that were unfortunately tough days for McG & HFO team.

Added: Sunday 02 July 2017 04:45:26 MST


Submitted by: Nam Vet
From: Hong Kong

New format looks great. Congratulations on the 150th Anniversary of Canada!

Added: Saturday 01 July 2017 20:13:27 MST


Submitted by: Fred
From: Chatsworth

Welcome back old format. I didn't post much in the new format, but that was mostly due to time/work constraints. The new format was great for discussing other topics.

DDK & GP are a surprise exit for me, the financial aspects of the move aside. GP not so much. DDK was the glue that kept the show together in my opinion. At least, the show already set up their exits. Kono is off to the mainland in her quest to rescue the underage aged sex slaves and Chin is off to set up a 5-O style tactical team in San Francisco.

Added: Saturday 01 July 2017 09:56:15 MST


Submitted by: Mr. Mike
From: Vancouver

Predictably, there is a flap about Daniel Dae Kim and Grace Park not returning to the show, though on Twitter, there is not as much outrage as I would have expected, at least on the main level. If you find postings about this via the hashtag #H50 and then look at Tweets which have this hashtag, you will find a lot of responses to those posts where people are venting their feelings. But the level of concern doesn't seem to have reached that where fans will start letter-writing campaigns and so forth, such as happened with numerous TV shows in the past, from the original Star Trek to the present day.

I suspect that both of these actors, who are in their 40s, were tired of doing the show. DDK has projects of his own to deal connected with his production company and GP probably wants to spend more time with her family. It is not unreasonable to assume that they both received a nice settlement as part of their "severance."

As far as the two actors not returning to the show at all next season (as has been reported), it is quite possible at the end of last season that they filmed some material designed to deal with whatever reason they are not returning, though I dunno if the actors would have been happy with this, because then they could really see that the "handwriting is on the wall"!!

If they don't come up with a good reason for their "disappearance," that is going to leave a lot of people with a very bad taste in their mouth, highly reminiscent of the original Five-O, where three major characters with varying degrees of "belovedness" -- Kono (Zulu), Ben (Al Harrington) and Danno (James MacArthur) -- just disappeared from the show with no explanation whatsoever.

Added: Saturday 01 July 2017 08:48:02 MST


Submitted by: ringfire211
From: Philadelphia

Hmmm well I guess I've gotten used to the new format. It was easier to discuss different topics that way. We had a lively SOSF discussion going on. So I'm sad to see it go away. This old format will definitely limit those kinds of discussions. But oh well, it's Mike's call. He's the boss. Whatever works best for him.

Added: Saturday 01 July 2017 08:33:12 MST


Submitted by: Rick
From: Newport Beach

Always liked this format better. Easy to scroll through new posts on one page.

Added: Saturday 01 July 2017 07:09:29 MST


Submitted by: honu59
From: New York

I'm happy to see the return of the original style forum. Happy Canada Day!

Added: Saturday 01 July 2017 05:31:08 MST


Submitted by: Joekido
From: Colorado Springs

I never bothered with the new format anyway.

Anyway the show has just hit the decline mark, Grace Park and Daniel has been droppedal from the show due to contract dispute and dipping ratings

Added: Friday 30 June 2017 18:24:32 MST


Submitted by: Mr. Mike
From: Vancouver

I have switched back to the old forum format. The new one had developed too many problems with spammers and fixing these problems was seemingly incompatible with the place where my web site is hosted. I tried to reinstall the whole thing from scratch and had no more luck doing that. Considering the only forums which really got any action on the "new" format were discussions about Five-O and Five-Zero and "Other" TV Shows, I might make a separate forum for the other shows. Do not bother to click on the "Archives" link at the top of the page, by the way, because it does not work. If you have any comments or suggestions about the forum, you can contact me through the e-mail address on the bottom of the main page (click on "Home Page" above).

Added: Friday 30 June 2017 18:07:04 MST


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