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Goodness, ringfire211, I just loaded up "Force of Waves" from my DVD and my suspicion was correct--that background music I'm looking for is also in that episode, during the whole "pre-opening" scene at the yacht club! It's much clearer in this episode, too. Anyone reading this have any idea what song that is or where I can find a clean version?

Added: Thursday 20 July 2017 16:42:49 MST
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I watched "Force of Waves" last night which I always liked because of the multiple personality disorder of Cal Anderson. I like how the murder seems to be connected to money and gambling and a will and things of that nature. But ultimately all these are irrelevant and are the work of a "serial killer" who has killed in this manner before, triggered by a deeply disturbed mental state. The best part of the episode is the ending where McGarrett is gently trying to open up Cal's mind into realizing what he has done. The whole mood and feel and acting in that scene is excellent!

The one thing that doesn't quite make sense is why Cal would forget about the speeding ticket. We know that he has blocked out the murders from his mind (committed by "evil Cal" so to speak) but why would he block out the ticket incident? Does he block out anything remotely negative from memory? If that's the case then he'd have some huge chunks of his life missing and I'm sure his wife and friends would have picked up on this long ago. Everyday tasks that he would block out from memory. I know this was done to propel the story forward - to raise a flag in McGarrett's mind - but it doesn't quite make sense. Getting a ticket is not the same as murder. He would have remembered the ticket. Another thing is that the moment you saw John Vernon you knew he would be the killer. I've never seen him play a good guy in anything. Like Richard Lynch, he's the perennial bad guy. The closest he ever came to a "good guy" role was the SF mayor in DIRTY HARRY but even there he was a creep. Oh and how about Linda Marsh? That short dress and those legs! :!inlove:

Added: Thursday 20 July 2017 11:45:12 MST
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Another article of interest:

Added: Thursday 20 July 2017 03:30:54 MST
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Beulah Koale was born in New Zealand a Samoan decent who are Polynesians like the Hawaiiian Polynesians. It's so close but good. But they also chose not to take any names from the Original Series and made it new.

Added: Wednesday 19 July 2017 21:07:22 MST
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Changes coming to Five-Zero cast for Season 8:

Added: Wednesday 19 July 2017 13:11:38 MST
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John, last time we did this my score was 4-3 in favor of season 8.

This one is a very easy matchup. "A Gun for McGarrett" is one of my favorites from season 7 while "Waterfront Steal" is one of my least favorites from season 8. Like "Steal Now - Pay Later" which also deals with stolen merchandise I just don't find it very exciting. Simon Oakland rants and raves a lot which gets old fast. "Gun" on the other hand has Steve in the crosshairs so it's an automatic win in my book! Great suspense, ruthless and oily villain in Savage, and a great twist with the Marni character. I loved seeing McG for once let his guard down. I didn't see that twist coming when I first saw it. I also loved how they sacrificed one of their own (George Herman) so that McG would feel safe and wouldn't catch on that Marni was the REAL assassin. You're right about John Gracciano who plays Savage's henchman. He's Weston's henchman in "Double Exposure" and in a memorable shot runs right into the camera (you can see his nostrils lol) as the commercial wave rolls. Finally seasons 7 and 8 even out - it's a 4-4 tie.

Added: Wednesday 19 July 2017 11:42:19 MST
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Hey, all! Long time Five-O fan, first time forum poster. I'm helping plan a 60th birthday party for an old buddy, and we want to have various Five-O background music playing at the event. One tune that particularly stood out to me was in the background of Season 3 Episode 13 "The Payoff" (from the DVD, "Steve rushes to capture a criminal and his girlfriend before they're caught by their pursuers - two men from whom they stole a large ransom in cash." The scene I'm talking about is when McGarrett and Danno go to a bar in search of the aforementioned "criminal" and asks the bartender for any of criminal's contacts. There's a piano melody playing in the background that I could swear I've heard on other episodes - but I've scoured Mike's music section of the site, and I just can't find it. So maybe it wasn't made specifically for the show? Any help would be much appreciated. Cheers!

Added: Tuesday 18 July 2017 22:31:36 MST
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Season 7 vs. Season 8 Part II
The Waterfront Steal heats up when Danno's cop friend Kimura stumbles upon one of the Waterfront robberies. Kimura has things under control except for Harry who shoots Kimura in hiding. Kimura might be shot dead but wounded Tommy. It's a gut shot wound. Harry and Zeno steal one of the large warehouse trucks with the wounded Tommy and plan their next move. Does Tommy survive the shooting? Who is behind the Waterfront robberies?
FINAL DECISION---Season 7 A Gun For McGarrett wins this battle. Savage proved to be a highly intelligent criminal mastermind and both of his plans should have worked killing McG. Sweet Marni as a hit woman was a brilliant touch. Excellent acting and cast including Sig Meer (Jim Demarest) and Tony (John Gracciano). HFO fans might remember Gracciano in The Double Exposure as Angelo. For some reason, Frank has a larger role than usual. His informant Yosh provides valuable info.
I like the Waterfront Steal a solid episode. Mr.Mendoza (Simon Oakland) had a strong plan as the mastermind behind the Waterfront robberies. He then swooped in buying up some of those businesses affected in the robberies cheaper. With his wealth, it makes little sense to be involved in these thefts. Love seeing Oakland shout and bluster. His daughter Elena shines as Tommy's girlfriend. Kimura was marked for death when I saw him early in the episode years ago. Can't kill off Danno or another regular. Don't understand why Tommy would steal some of the calculators. The final explosions were suspenseful as they moved the gut shot Tommy out of the large warehouse truck just in time. I think the Waterfront Steal would have been executed better if HFO had Chin or Duke on a rooftop with a walkie talkie. He could radio down to HPD on any suspicious activity. The Waterfront area looked expansive and much territory to cover.
A Gun For McGarrett wins this one as Season 7 closes the deficit to 4-3-1 after 8 head to head battles. I'm going to 12 battles so Season 7 has to make up ground. JC

Added: Tuesday 18 July 2017 13:06:12 MST
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There was some talk on Classic HFO a few posts which gives me the opportunity to bring back Season 7 vs. Season 8. It was Season 8 leading Season 7 by 4-2-1. Battle #8 A Gun For McGarrett vs. The Waterfront Steal. This is a good matchup. McGarrett is targeted by a British sounding criminal SN Savage. McG should have been killed by an exploding award but survives the explosion. Five O regroups and must find out who tried to assassinate Steve. Savage moves to Phase #2 utilizing the services of hit woman Marni. She's an attractive blonde art shop owner who has a similar accent to Savage. McG admires the strong attractive Marni. She will cooperate with the investigation unlike many owners. Marni survives a second attack and requires hospitalization. He protects Marni as does Five O. Will Marni survive? Does McG find the hitman in time?
Season 8 The Waterfront Steal features Mr. Mendoza a respected businessman and a man of power and wealth. He has plenty of angry fire leveled at the police and security. Mendoza represents the owners who are getting their warehouses robbed losing merchandise and $. Mendoza has a young daughter about 19 or 20 who is living her life. Her boyfriend Tommy Lind is one of the Warehouse robbers. There's plenty of good family stuff here. Mendoza is a real rags to riches story and has reached a high station in Hawaii. He's about appearances and respectability. The daughter is strong like her father but still lives with him in an impressive house and property.

Added: Tuesday 18 July 2017 12:13:46 MST
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Mike, track #1 was correct - "One for the Money". Track #5 is "Thousand Pardons".

Added: Sunday 16 July 2017 12:53:17 MST
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Hey Mike,

Track #5 here -- -- is actually from "A Thousand Pardons -- You're Dead", Morton's Emmy-winning score. The first cue in that track is indeed heard in "The Ransom" (during the Sea Life Park ransom drop) as well as in "Leopard on the Rock" but both of those cues as heard in that track are from "Thousand Pardons".

And we also determined a little while back that #22 is from "Full Fathom Five" (when Danny is rummaging through Reese's cabin).

#18 is almost certainly from "Is This Any Way to Run a Paradise?" (when Nephi Hanneman sneaks into the Chinese guy's house at night from the ocean and kills him).

#9 is "Guarnerius Caper" (same cue as #10)

#3 might be "And a Time to Die" but I'm not positive. And #4 could be a number of episodes, not sure about it. Maybe someone can chime in on these 2.

Just filling in some blanks for ya. In case you want to update it.

Added: Sunday 16 July 2017 06:17:30 MST
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Marc, that's really narrow-minded of you to label an entire people trash just because you had a problem with one jerk. Do you really expect everyone to welcome you with open arms all the time? This is the real world. It doesn't work like that. If I have a bad experience with one Chinese guy am I gonna throw all the Chinese under the bus? That's ridiculous. I'll tell you one thing - if I fall in love with the islands and decide to move there it's gonna take a whole lot to change my mind about moving there. I'm not easily scared off or offended. There are jerks the world over. To change all your plans because of one jerk makes absolutely no sense. Were you actually planning to purchase that property where that jerk lives? Because there's a multitude of properties across the different islands. Take your pick!

Added: Saturday 15 July 2017 17:29:37 MST
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I'm trying to track down shows with Elissa in them. Of the following, those with an asterisk (*) have been released in complete box sets; I'm not sure if individual seasons from these were or are available.

Maybe someone has access to these shows through the local library?

If so, let me know, you can contact me through the link at the bottom of the page.

The Bold Ones*

The Brian Keith Show

Barnaby Jones*
S08E02 (2-part show set in Hawaii)

Vega$* (uncredited part)

Revealing Evidence (TV movie, 1990)

Jake and the Fatman*

The Byrds of Paradise

Added: Saturday 15 July 2017 01:44:30 MST
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I've enjoyed 5-0 for many years but probably will stop watching. Daniel de Kim and Grace Park are essential to the story threads of the modern version and it makes no sense to not pay them equitably. If I don't watch then Caan and Olaughlin don't get paid either.
On a related topic, another poster noted that Hawaiians welcome us as tourists who spend money but despise us as residents. I recently experienced being despised as a tourist. I rented a house on the South coast of the big island near some brackish tidal pools. The driveway to my rental was clearly marked as "no parking" but one morning I woke up and there was a car parked blocking the driveway.
I walked out to the pond and announced that I was going to call a tow truck for the little blue Toyota that was blocking my driveway. A Hawaiian guy said "that's my car, I grew up here and I can park wherever I want, even in your driveway.'
That attitude and experience changed my retirement plans. I have no respect for Hawaiians and no desire to visit again or live there. Based on my experience, ohana=trash.

Added: Friday 14 July 2017 21:13:15 MST
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Death's Name Is SAM one of the Classic episodes of Season 8. It's nearly flawless in its execution. You knew it was going to be great when the Old Man used the cyanide capsule in the hospital. One of the best scenes when the young policeman undercover completes the puzzle. The helicopter theft and explosion was one of the best in the series. I wonder how it would have played out had the policeman NOT radioed in from the helicopter. It's very suspenseful and I would give the episode 5.5 stars out of 6 stars. The lady actress Darcy Hinton also played Betty Rogers the wife in Anatomy Of A Bribe. A very underrated actress if you ask me. JC

Added: Friday 14 July 2017 10:40:07 MST
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Was re-watching "Death's Name is SAM" from Season 8 the other night. Did anybody besides me notice that the actress who plays the captured terrorist being interrogated by McGarrett in his office bears a strong physical resemblance to Patricia Hearst? (I can't find her name in the credits.) Something tells me this was not a coincidence.

Added: Friday 14 July 2017 01:51:43 MST
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Mike, the thing that bothers me about Hawai'i returning to its sovereignty is how it will protect itself. Just as the Islands are the United States' extended finger into the Pacific (See "Cocoon" (Pilot)), it could easily become any other nation's extended finger into the Pacific. Some of those nations might not be of Hawai'i's choice. For example, China, North Korea, and the former Soviet Union, all of which are Pacific Rim nations and dangerously close to the shores of Hawai'i. So, although I agree with the Hawaiian people about how wrong the takeover of the 1890s was, I don't see how a nation that relies almost exclusively on tourism to balance its budget can hope to maintain a military industrial complex capable of defending itself. Sometimes, it comes down to "Better the devil you know."

Added: Thursday 13 July 2017 07:54:15 MST
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Loved that H50europe tumblr post. I doubt I would agree with the writer on anything else about the show, but his/her take on the departures and the fallout was spot on.

Added: Tuesday 11 July 2017 20:59:51 MST
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Acting is a highly competitive business, regardless of one's cultural or national background. As the first article said, each actor is a business unto himself. So true, just as each musician or writer or artist . . . or engineer or architect . . . is a business unto himself. That's self-employment! Has been for years; will be for years.

To attach cultural or national background to every disagreement is just plain childish. There are so many factors, the main one being that the actors involved think they deserve a raise. Again, people have been asking for raises for years; will be for years. And, of course, we'd all like to be earning as much as the top banana. If we can get them to throw in a golden parachute clause, so much the better.

So, what's the issue? Oh, yeah! Right! The media needs an issue to help them sell their own businesses. Unfortunately, they jumped the shark when they started creating issues where none exist.

Added: Tuesday 11 July 2017 10:27:57 MST
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Two articles:

From the second:

I remember when George Litto, the former rep of Hawaii Five-O creator Leonard Freeman, shopped that property initially as a movie. Every studio wanted it. Litto had total control, too much for the liking of those studios, which is why it languished so long. I recall him telling me once he intended to make a deal that would allow his family to steer the ensuing movies/TV shows long-term the way Cubby Broccoli handed down James Bond to his family. He subsequently got in a legal battle with the estate, and he isn't steering the series now. He had leverage, until he didn't.

Added: Tuesday 11 July 2017 08:06:39 MST
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No one is pure anything, we are all a mix of only God knows what and that is a good thing. Every American should have equal obligations and rights regardless of their race, gender etc.

We need to concentrate on our shared nationality as Americans rather than looking for ways to subdivide us. The original concept of the great melting pot needs to be reinvigorated (turn the temperature up ;) by having our laws, our education system and our cultural institutions encourage assimilation into the greater American culture which is the best of all the different ways of life our ancestors came from.

The alternative where we subdivide into more and more "special" groups is a fools errand that can only end in disaster. I subscribe to MLK and his vision of America where we are all equal before the law and judged as individuals on our own merit.

Sorry for the tirade! This issue is near to my heart!

Added: Tuesday 11 July 2017 07:57:02 MST
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I guess that explains why Niihau is called "The Forbidden Island". Now I really want to go visit there! lol

Added: Monday 10 July 2017 08:32:34 MST
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The departure of Daniel Dae Kim and Grace Park has made me think about the issue of "who is a Hawaiian?"

This has some relevance to what's going on recently, because there have been complaints in the past about the fact a Hawaiian actor or even someone better qualified than the Korean Park was not on the original "core four" team and whether they will be hiring someone to fill such a role now. (Park's character seemingly had some "Hawaiian" connection by virtue of her last name, Kalakaua, though she was a "cousin" of Chin Ho Kelly, whose ancestry was supposedly Chinese ... but in one show, Chin Ho ridiculed McGarrett for being a "haole.")

Are there any blood quantum laws to determine who is "Hawaiian" like certain North American Indian tribes use to determine qualification by ancestry in relation to tribal membership? I don't know.

I was discussing this in the last few days with a friend (not a native Hawaiian) who lived in Hawaii for some time, who sent me the following e-mail:


What I know about Hawaiian ethnicity is that there are either almost none or no people alive today who are pure Hawaiian. Interestingly, Moe Keale's Wikipedia page notes that he was "one of the few people born in the 20th century of pure Hawaiian ancestry."

I also know that no one is allowed to set foot on Niihau who does not have at least some Hawaiian blood running through their veins. A friend of mine had a friend living in Hawaii his entire life. He was of Chinese ancestry. During his military service (I think either Korean or Vietnam), he flew helicopters. At one point, he and his copilot were flying over Niihau and decided to make an "emergency" landing on an empty beach just to have the experience of being able to say they'd been to Niihau. They landed, and within three minutes, armed police officers were there asking them what they thought they were doing and go away. They complied, LOL.

I found this tidbit in a newspaper article while searching for more information on this:

"Native Hawaiian" is a racial classification recognized by the United States. In the 2010 Census: 527,077 people reported that they are Native Hawaiian alone or of a mixed race that includes Native Hawaiian. There now may be as few as 8,000 pure-blood Native Hawaiians remaining in the world.

It comes from this article, which has a lot of interesting information:

There is also this found when I did a little Google searching:

In 1974, the Native American Programs Act was amended to include native Hawaiians. This paved the way for native Hawaiians to become eligible for some, but not all, federal assistance programs originally intended for Continental Native Americans. Today, Title 45 CFR Part 1336.62 defines a Native Hawaiian as "an individual any of whose ancestors were natives of the area which consists of the Hawaiian Islands prior to 1778."

When I lived in Hawaii full time, I worked for a law firm where one of the other secretaries was a woman of pure Hawaiian blood. She had been born on Niihau and had family there. She used to talk about the ali'i nui and "the 400." I can't remember the exact meaning of "the 400" except it was something to do with the number of people alive at the time who could trace their ancestry back to Hawaiian royalty. She claimed to be one of "the 400."

The famed singer, Israel Kamakawiwo'ole (coincidentally, Moe Keale's nephew), was the son of a man born on Niihau. I believe he was either fully 100% Hawaiian or very close.

In all the time I've spent in Hawaii, since the early 1980s, there has always been a strong movement to restore the monarchy and return Hawaii to independence. It seems like every year, it gets a little more popular and gains a little more ground. I think Hawaii may some day return to an independent territory or something like that. Daniel Inouye, the late senator from Hawaii, was a strong proponent for independence of some kind. He was always proposing mandates to give tax breaks, land ownership, and other rights specifically to those with at least some Hawaiian blood.

Real estate in Hawaii is much more complicated thatn in most other states in the U.S. Great swathes of land are owned by various trusts that belong to old Hawaiian families. It's called fee-simple real estate. If you buy a house in fee simple, you own the building, but not the land. The land is leased out for 99 years at a time and you simply purchase a right to the lease when you buy the house. If the lease expires during your ownership of the building and the leaseholder chooses not to renew to you, they must buy your building, but you are otherwise out of luck if you want to try to stay. You have no right to the land itself. A lot of the trusts have been sold and many individual pieces of land have been sold off because the people who own it need the money.

As far as ethnic diversity on the show, pffft. That was always an issue. I know from having lived there that we haoles are welcome as tourists but despised as residents. I personally think Hawaii should secede from the union and go back to being an independent monarchy. The British and the U.S. did them very wrong back in the 1890s and it's time to reverse that. As far as I know, there's never been a Native Hawaiian governor, although looking at the names of the lieutenant governors, I think a couple of those might have been Native Hawaiians.

Every year on King Kamehameha's birthday, there's a huge parade. Part of the parade is a car with the current heir to the monarchy, as well as "princes" and "princesses" on horses. If they went back to the monarchy tomorrow, they've got them waiting in the wings and ready to go.

Added: Monday 10 July 2017 00:55:20 MST
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In July of 1974, when the original show was in the middle of its seventh season, Jack Lord was making $30,000 per episode. In today's money, that's $148,623.28. That's an estimated $148,620 per episode in today's money. It's less than what Daniel and Grace were making before CBS made that offer they rejected - and Jack was the star, co-executive producer, and co-owner of the show. Jack was worth more than that, but he never complained about his salary or ever asked for money, unlike other actors at CBS at that time.

Grace does far less on the new show than Daniel and the others, and her contributions are chicken scratch compared to what Jack did for the original, yet she makes more per episode than he did. That only tells you how unrealistic actors' salaries are now.

Added: Saturday 08 July 2017 18:25:21 MST
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Re: the LA Times statement, "Decades of racist caricatures -- think Mickey Rooney playing the buck-toothed Mr. Yunioshi in "Breakfast at Tiffany's" -- have given way to an industry that is more inclusive, but where leading roles remain scarce." - - In most cases, for a member of such a group to have a starring role, he/she must create a production with a script that calls for a member of the group to have a starring role. Needless to say, as difficult as it is to have a production aired, this doesn't happen very often. An example is Jane Fonda and Lily Tomlin going in together as senior citizens to create and produce "Grace and Frankie." They probably saw the same thing Asians see: Hollywood isn't very interested in producing television or movies about their demographic.

Added: Saturday 08 July 2017 17:28:17 MST
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Los Angeles Times weighs in on the DDK/GP departure:

Added: Saturday 08 July 2017 13:53:49 MST
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How I yearn for the simpler times when no one was complaining about inequality and folks were just happy to be working. Did Kam Fong or Zulu or Al Harrington complain about racial inequality or that they weren't getting paid the same as Jack Lord? Or even JMac? No, they knew they were second bananas on the show and that was that. Was Michael Douglas getting paid the same as Karl Malden? Of course not, and he wasn't even a "second banana" (despite being in the Supporting Actor category at Emmy awards time).

Things sure were simpler.

Added: Saturday 08 July 2017 11:53:33 MST
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My TV industry pal e-mailed me as follows. This was received yesterday, but there is kind of a "reverse echo" with some of the things which Todd says below in his message which I got this morning...

Seven year contracts is pretty standard as these things go. The way it works is, every actor on a new show signs for 5 years on day one.

If the show is a success, there's an unwritten rule the studio or network or whoever renews the contract for a further 5 years at much bigger money at the end of year 2. That's why on a lot of shows -- Friends, Seinfeld etc. -- the contract extension at the end of year 7 can be a real bitch to settle.

I'm sure everyone is lying, at least in part. I find it hard to believe DDK would blow up a cushy paycheque over $5,000. I also find it unlikely that CBS would offer a supporting player anything near in the neighborhood of $195,000 if O'Loughlin and Caan are getting $200,000. Kim may be a better actor/character, etc., but that's not how these things work. The lead, deserved or not, always gets special treatment. That's the business. As for profit points, that would be to O'Loughlin's agent's credit; he was a rising star at the time and Moonves wanted badly to get him his own show (that's why he was allowed to star in a couple of CBS flops before Five-O hit). Caan was obviously grandfathered in on his surname and family connections.

It makes total sense to me that Park's issue was more about her wanting to do fewer episodes, though I'm a little surprised by the ballsy demand that it be "less than half the episodes," though again that may just be empty rumor or blatantly untrue. If I were her, the way I would've looked at it is to keep working in Hawaii and take whatever money CBS was willing to throw at her, because I doubt those offers will be there 5 years from now. And if she's already made enough money from Five-0 she should just go, and not be half-in and half-out. I think she's a lot less radical about the whole Asian/equality casting thing than DDK, though I'm sure it's on her mind from time to time.

By the way, you're probably aware, but this very same issue came up on The X-Files around year 3 or 4. Gillian Anderson wanted pay equity with Duchovny (the gap was substantial in years 1 and 2, because Duchovny was a much bigger name when the show was first cast).

What made that crisis particularly edgy was that Duchovny was offended that Anderson wanted parity, because he felt he had paid his dues prior to the show being made, whereas she hadn't, really. Anderson was annoyed that Duchovny was annoyed and felt it was none of his business what she made on the show and what business was it of his, etc., etc., even though by demanding pay equity, she was kind of making his salary her business (the fans agreed with her, for most part, and sided with her).

The way that got resolved in the end was that she agreed to do the (first) movie for big money (the Fox studio badly wanted a movie, and couldn't very well do it without Scully), and she got pay equity by around year 4 or 5.

Duchovny kind of won out in the end, though, because, as you may recall, after the show moved to LA in year 6, he kind of took a "semi-retirement" in years 8 and 9 by only appearing in a couple of episodes both those seasons.

By the way, one last thing on Grace Park: all actors, even leads, get paid by the episode, not the season. So if Grace Park did only 10 episodes, for example, she'd only get paid for 10. Whether she would be making Alex O'Loughlin money for those 10 or Masi Oka money would be what was being negotiated. Of course, for all we know, maybe Lenkov was tired of writing for her character. Or, conversely, maybe he wanted to expand her character, have her be key in every episode. I know what I would've done. It's Hawaii! I would've showed off her bod at every opportunity, sexist pig that I am. Never going to see R-rated stuff on CBS, though, let alone X-rated.

A lot of those comments about this whole issue of DDK and GP leaving are really imbecilic, by the way, as they always are. One that jumped out at me, though, is how you can have a show set in Hawaii and have the ensemble be all-white. Then again, there's nothing preventing Lenkov -- other than his own limited imagination -- from creating 2 or 3 more Asian/Hawaiian characters, and then hiring relatively unknown Asian actors -- for, ahem, peanuts -- to play them. I could see fans getting tired in a hurry of a straight O'Loughlin-Caan comedy hour. DDK and Grace Park clearly added a lot of "color" to the show.

Added: Saturday 08 July 2017 06:39:47 MST
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I'm starting to wonder if DDK and GP were already pretty much checked out of Five-0 in the first place, and already planning to leave. Perhaps they felt the show was going to end after Season 8 anyway, and they saw it was time to bail out and do other things. (I believe this is why James MacArthur left after Season 11 of the original.)

So why this whole racial inequality bit?

I'm guessing that they decided it was worth staying if their pay was elevated to that of O'Loughlin and Caan, but otherwise not. So they demanded it, CBS decided to give them a huge pay hike, but stopped a little short of equaling the pay of Alex and Scott.

Interestingly, an article in Variety said that they were offered $195,000 per episode instead of the $200,000 for Alex and Scott. Clearly the $5k per episode was peanuts compared to the overall budget of the show, so stopping short was clearly just to leave Alex and Scott with the feeling that they're still the highest paid.

Here's the Variety article:

DDK and GP were likely bitter that CBS was stopping short so close to the goal post, and left with some bitterness. They probably did spin themselves up into believing that it was a racial thing -- that they were still paid slightly less just to give the white stars the feeling they were superior.

Thus, neither DDK nor GP has corrected the media claims that it was a racial thing, which is very telling. Their silence on that matter speaks volumes.

Here is another interesting article:

There has to be more to this situation than meets the eye.

I've never seen it where supporting characters are offered 97.5% the pay of main characters, and I've especially never seen it where those supporting characters REJECT that unprecedented offer, claiming it's not enough.

That's simply not how TV contracts have ever worked.

I'm sure the full story will leak out eventually.

Added: Saturday 08 July 2017 01:22:33 MST
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The SOSF discussions from the phpBB forum have all been archived now here:

Added: Friday 07 July 2017 15:49:28 MST
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Hey John, welcome back. Thought you had disappeared after the forum change. I miss the old setup but it is what it is. This works too. Mike even has a link up top for "Other Shows" where we can continue our SOSF discussions. On that page there's an Archive link too for all the SOSF talk we did so that's not lost. He has all his SOSF reviews that he did here

Added: Friday 07 July 2017 14:19:09 MST
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"It was a pleasure watching Masi Oka breathing life into this character in each episode."
:D Right, by doing his "rain man" schtick again and again?? Puhleese, the dude is a geeky coroner. Why does everybody need some stupid character arc these days?? It's so dumb! I bet the janitor who empties the Five-0 office's waste baskets every night has a character arc too, doesn't he?

But I do agree with that poster on the DDK situation. That's an ass thing to do on DDK's part - to make this into a race equality issue now that he's gone, when he never even once let out a peep about this during the last 7 seasons. If you want to go because of other projects on your horizon that's fine. If you want to make a plug for your new project while you're explaining your leaving the show that's fine too. But don't go pulling some race card for no reason at all. That's a vile thing to do!

Added: Friday 07 July 2017 12:44:04 MST
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An interesting comment:

You know the feeling where there is this mental itch and you can't help but have to scratch it? Once more, we are speaking up and share our thoughts on the latest developments concerning the departures of DDK and Grace Park. Don't worry this is not going to be the never-ending story. For us, it means coming to a closure with it.

Remember last year when a great guy left our beloved show? Masi Oka took us all by surprise when he opened up about his departure from the show. "I just thought the character went through a major journey," he told EW. "Character-wise, I felt like Max had done too much of everything he can do." Masi had nothing more to add to it, and the plot had come full circle. With teary eyes, we saw him depart in episode 7.13. It was a proper wake for a guy so humble and endearing. His character, coroner Max Bergman, often made us smile with his quirky sense of humor. It was a pleasure watching Masi Oka breathing life into this character in each episode. When he left, it happened quietly. He didn't brag about his production company or the upcoming projects he already had in the pipeline. For me, Masi left like footprints in the sand being washed away by the sea. He was truly a class act. We still miss you, Masi.

And then, there were the departures of Grace Park (Kono Kalakaua) and Daniel Dae Kim (Chin Ho Kelly). These departures caused an outcry in an already troubled fandom and shocked most of us to the core. According to VARIETY, CBS offered "large and significant salary increases" to keep Daniel Dae Kim and Grace Park in the cast of Hawaii Five-0 after Kim had said via Facebook that he was unable to come to a deal with CBS to return to the long-running series.


This was not the icing on the cake. It came later when all of a sudden the race card was thrown into this game. We stood there gaping because we weren't aware of all the fly-by-night fans that suddenly jumped on this bandwagon and blew this matter way out of proportion.

As for the past few months, DDK has grabbed a lot of attention for being the role model to fight for equality of Asian-Americans in Hollywood. He got awards and prizes for it. In the meantime, Kim was also revving up his activity as a producer. His 3AD banner (production company) landed a new medical drama series on ABC for the coming season, The Good Doctor, starring Freddie Highmore.

Congrats! DDK is a helluva business man. I could adore him for the promotion stunt he pulled with this kind of action. Never before in his entire career has this guy gotten this much attention. If that wasn't well-calculated, why else hadn't he spoken up earlier about this matter? Over the past seven years, we've never heard him talking about feeling discriminated against or being underpaid.

I feel so sorry for the man that he bottled up his frustration and swallowed his pride to work on a show that has shown more diversity than any other I know. He must have been struggling to go to work and see his "white co-stars" working their asses off for this show on a daily basis.

Some people are predictable; some still surprise me. He's one of the latter. While he praises the cast and crew in his statement on FB, his fans are (suddenly) bashing the remaining cast to the utmost.

And that is the reason, I said earlier, that I could adore him. The whole scenario as it is being presented to us looks orchestrated in a way. After one of the most successful seasons of the show, he and Grace Park are throwing in the towel. We don't know anything about Grace's motivation, so we are not starting to throw around rumors.

IMHO, DDK killed it and poured gasoline onto the already spreading wildfire with the last paragraph of his FB statement.

"I'll end by saying that though transitions can be difficult, I encourage us all to look beyond the disappointment of this moment to the bigger picture. The path to equality is rarely easy (this must've felt like a blow to the gut for the remaining cast and crew). But I hope you can be excited for the future. I am. 5-0 continues on after one of its strongest seasons (like we didn't know that already. To me, this sounds more pathetic and like a mockery)."

Then, he slipped back into the part of the shrewd business man he is by promoting himself:

"I've got new acting projects on the horizon, and as a producer, my company, 3AD, has its first show, THE GOOD DOCTOR, set to air this fall on ABC. I hope you'll tune in. There's a lot to look forward to, and I'll be sure to share it with you."

We wish him (and also Grace) the best of luck for the future. We are sorry he had to endure all the discrimination over the past seven years and never LOST a word about it.

We apologize for throwing up in our mouths a little - when we were reading all the hatred messages produced by a bunch of spineless keyboard warriors who feel nothing but safe behind their screens as well as the "anonymity of the www." These days, it's easy to spread hatred and bully people you don't even know. Who are you to judge someone by his appearance or behavior? You are no better than the people you judge. Ever heard of reverse discrimination? What comes around goes around.

We also apologize that you had to deal with the entire verbal diarrhea. If you came that far, thank you for taking your time to read. However, please spare us your unqualified hatred messages. We know them by heart. They are getting old.

To everyone who feels compelled to stop watching the show: Goodbye! No need to tell this to your handful of followers; you won't be missed, and they probably won't even know what you're talking about because they don't give a damn about your feelings, anyway.

To those of us who survived this circus and still stand with the show and the remaining cast: CONGRATS. Well done, ladies and gentleman. You'll earn another action-packed season and some changes in the cast that will open up new possibilities and interesting plots. Looking more than forward to it!

Added: Friday 07 July 2017 08:08:07 MST
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Ringfire, I love your idea, especially to have a plus-sized woman named Truck. Why are all the women on this show skinny-skinny? That doesn't reflect real life. Yet it's okay to have Jerry and Kamekona. And Jerry has a badge? He'd never pass the HPD PT test, if they have such a test.

Added: Friday 07 July 2017 03:23:36 MST
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HFO Regulars And Fans.

Best way to end HFO would have Abby and Chin go on a bird watching tour and take pictures of an old sugar mill. There would be a secret criminal mastermind involved who wants everybody in the tour killed. Their cameras and film destroyed. This criminal mastermind Helix would suspend Abby and Chin over an active volcano and have a battle to the death with McG.

Added: Thursday 06 July 2017 22:59:38 MST
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I think it would be hilarious if they pulled the "old Five-O" stunt regarding the departure of Chin and Kono. Meaning not a single mention of what happened to them. Season 8 begins with a new character named Ben and another new character named Truck (a super-sized woman of course). No mention of where these 2 new characters came from. Boom, they're just there. Kono who? Chin who? :D

Of course this won't happen in this day and age since every character's motivation and personal life needs to scrutinized under the microscope in excruciating detail. It's prime-time soap is what it is.

Added: Thursday 06 July 2017 19:36:41 MST
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Would anyone know where a guy could get some large size, high-resolution digital photos of Steve McGarrett/Jack Lord? Just picking images off the Internet are way too small of files for what I'm looking to do, which is create a life-like size Fathead wall poster. Respond here if you know of anything out there. Thanks - Jay

Added: Thursday 06 July 2017 17:47:30 MST
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I wonder how they will resolve the plot threads with Chin and Kono...

For example, Chin and Abby will be gone to San Francisco at the beginning of the show, not necessarily with Chin having made up his mind yet about the job of starting a Five-Zero-like task force there which was offered to him in the last episode of last season. Then McG gets a phone call saying that Abby and/or someone in the SFPD (or is it the FBI?) really convinced him to stay there so he is going "to give it a shot" (no pun intended).

As far as Kono is concerned, she will go to Carson City but she will be murdered by the local sex trafficking gangsters (this could probably be done with a body double in a brief scene). Either McG will go to Carson City to claim her body or she will be returned home, there will be the usual police funeral, McG will look sad, etc.

Added: Thursday 06 July 2017 16:34:14 MST
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Lenkov has more to say:

Added: Thursday 06 July 2017 16:03:07 MST
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Various news about the DDK/GP departure. You may have to copy and paste these URLs into the browser...

Original Variety story (may have been revised):

Update to Variety story:

Five-Zero blogger reaction (may not work from computer, only from phone):
(and more recent reaction)

Lenkov's initial comments to fan reaction on Twitter (he's not going to get rich if he's paid by the word):

More recent comments from Lenkov:

More reaction to departure on Facebook (from FOX!!):

Added: Thursday 06 July 2017 11:25:16 MST
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"Did Goober and Gomer get paid as much as Andy and Barney?"

Added: Thursday 06 July 2017 11:12:31 MST
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You're so right Mr. Mike. After all, AOL is an Australian playing an American. Go figure.

Added: Thursday 06 July 2017 08:00:20 MST
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I saw a comment on the innerwebs that pretty much sums it up. My apologies if it's already been posted here somewhere below...

"Did Goober and Gomer get paid as much as Andy and Barney?"

Added: Wednesday 05 July 2017 22:31:01 MST
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Someone who I know who is in the TV industry sent me the following:

"In the past -- and there's no reason to think it's changed now -- Les Moonves [Chairman of the Board, President, and Chief Executive Officer of CBS Corporation] has had 100% control over casting decisions and, by association, contract extensions. It sounds way below his pay grade (and it is) but it's well known that he's always been obsessed with casting on his shows, and it's one thing he stayed close to, even as he has moved up the corporate ladder. This [business with DDK and GP not returning] sounds totally like Les Moonves. Dae Kim and Grace Park clearly held out for what they thought they were worth, and Moonves, not Lenkov or Kurtzman, disagreed."

I had to cut out a lot of what this guy told me, but there is info on the public record which related to what he was talking about. Go and do a Google search for

"george eads" moonves

with the quote marks. These articles relate to George Eads on CSI asking for more money and getting fired in 2004.

Ironically, Eads is now second banana on Lenkov's reboot of MacGyver, a CBS product.

Added: Wednesday 05 July 2017 15:49:28 MST
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sandee204 on Instagram reportedly sent DDK (who is also on this site) the following message:

I really hope the best for you and Grace in your new opportunities. However, I really wish you had addressed the way this situation has been made into a racial issue. This is a business issue. It has nothing to do with you being Asian American, and I think you and Grace should step forward and say so. I'm seeing headlines like "Asian Actors Let Go from Hawaii 5-0 While White Actors Earn More." That's ridiculous. This was a contractual issue between you, your agents, and the network. You and Grace were supporting characters on the show. You've been in the business long enough to understand that! When you did "The King and I," did the actress playing Tuptim earn as much as you? No--you were the star of the show. How is this any different? I think you owe it to the producers, cast, crew, and fans of Hawaii 5-0 to help stop these untrue negative headlines. That show employs more Asian actors and crew members than any other show on TV, I'm sure. It's just wrong to let your legacy be tarnished by these false racism claims.

Added: Wednesday 05 July 2017 15:42:50 MST
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I read DDK's fb post and what caught my eye was the last paragraph where he says we should look ahead past the disappointment of the present and that "the path to equality is rarely easy". So apparently "equality" (or lack of) is the cause of his departure? Is this monetary equality? Racial equality? Like maybe he wants higher billing or more screen time?

Of course I always roll my eyes whenever I hear that word "equality" these days. It's so overplayed. Everyone and their dog demands equality these days. I feel like a woman today so I'm going into the ladies bathroom today. I demand equality!!! The word doesn't even mean anything anymore. As far as the pay issue goes Todd already pointed out very effectively how your billing affects how much you get paid. It's clear as rain. Equality doesn't apply here. Every work place has "inequality" when it comes to our paychecks. It's by design. As it should be. There is no social injustice to battle there. It's life so get over it, DDK (if that's his issue of course).

Added: Wednesday 05 July 2017 11:59:11 MST
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"And then there is DDK, who is Korean, playing a character in the show who is Chinese and GP, also Korean, playing someone who is supposedly "Hawaiian"!"

In the original show, Chin Ho Kelly and Kono Kalakaua were not cousins as they are in the reboot. Chin was Chinese/Irish and Kono was native Hawaiian (perhaps remotely descended from royalty?). Both Kam Fong and Zulu had the appearance of the heritage of the characters they played.

Since the new Chin and Kono are cousins, perhaps they wanted the actors to appear more like they shared the same heritage, so both Korean? Who knows?

Added: Wednesday 05 July 2017 11:56:40 MST
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In a posting on his Facebook page early this morning, DDK had this to say (the full posting is much longer):

I will not be returning to Hawaii Five-0 when production starts next week. Though I made myself available to come back, CBS and I weren't able to agree to terms on a new contract, so I made the difficult choice not to continue.

This is very diplomatic, as you would expect from DDK, but you will notice that the word "money" is not mentioned anywhere. There are lots of reasons that issues with a contract could cause someone to be upset. For example, maybe they wanted him to participate less, working only a couple of episodes in the next season, maybe they wanted him to work more, like the contract was for another 20 years or something! So DDK has not completely quashed rumors with his statement.

Quite a few people are dragging racism into the controversy, but this is nothing new. There have been issues about racism ever since the show started in terms of the choice of actors and the fact that like the original show, the two leads are both white.

But bringing racism into the show opens up a whole other can of worms. For example:

- How do you define what a "Hawaiian" is if you are going to complain about Hawaiian people not being properly represented on the show? Should people have to take DNA tests to get a job on a show like this?

- is it OK for someone who is from a certain Asian ethnic group to play a part which is someone from a different Asian ethnic group? A classic example of this was in the film Memoirs of a Geisha, where a Chinese actress played the lead, who was obviously Japanese. Lots of Japanese people made a big stink about this. And then there is DDK, who is Korean, playing a character in the show who is Chinese and GP, also Korean, playing someone who is supposedly "Hawaiian" in some way, based on her last name (though the two are cousins)! To me this is verging on the racist concept, usually espoused by white people, that "they all look the same." The fact that Asian actors can get roles at all these days seems to override the fact that, with their participation, those roles may not be particularly "authentic," the case of one of them taking a "Hawaiian" part in itself being kind of "racist" or maybe I should say "ethnic groupist." This kind of thinking can get ridiculous, though. For example, if a white guy wants to play a white guy of a different ethnic group, for example, should an Irish actor play a German, a French actor play someone from Poland, etc.?

Added: Wednesday 05 July 2017 09:11:23 MST
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Disappointed that you killed the forum. I believe the issues could have been resolved.

Anyway, regarding Daniel Dae Kim and Grace Park departing Five-Zero, I think that's going to put the nail in the show's coffin. It's possible that season 8 was going to be the last one anyway. However, this really smacks of "More than one series regular leaves a long-running show, and it tries to reinvent itself", which rarely ends well.

I reject the idea that DDK and GP "deserve" equal pay. The term "equal pay" has been thrown around a lot in recent times, and on its face, appears to be a noble concept.

However, it is wholly unrealistic.

No two employees of any business have identical value. Employee pay should be a matter between the employee and employer, and no one automatically "deserves" the amount someone else is getting paid.

DDK and GP are not being paid less because they're Asian. They are being paid less because they are third-tier stars of the show.

Alex O'Loughlin is the main star of the show, and Scott Caan is one level below him. Daniel Dae Kim and Grace Park are the next level down, followed by the rest of the main credited cast (Chi McBride, Jorge Garcia, etc), followed by the recurring guest stars (Kamekona, etc).

Without knowing the pay structures of the show, traditionally the main star of the show gets the highest pay, and it goes downward from there, in the manner described above.

It is very rare that a star will take a pay cut so others can be paid more. This is because the star feels that the production/network can much more afford to pay the co-stars what they want, and feel that such a pay cut is unnecessary (which is usually true).

When a pay cut does occur, it almost never brings everyone to parity

A good example was the pay cut recently taken by the five main "Big Bang Theory" stars -- Jim Parsons, Johnny Galecki, Kaley Cuoco, Kunal Nayyar and Simon Helberg. They were all receiving $1 million per episode, while co-stars Melissa Rauch and Mayim Bialik (both of whom joined the series later) were receiving $200,000 per episode.

The five main stars agreed to each take a $100,000 per episode cut, with the agreement that the money would be transferred to Rauch and Bialik. However, that still left the five main stars making $900,000 per episode, and Rauch/Bialik making $450,000 per episode -- half of what they others were making!

So how come Rauch and Bialik were okay making half of what the other five were making (even after the redistribution of salary), and DDK/GP were so unhappy being paid just 10-15% less than Caan and O'Loughlin?

I am actually surprised that DDK and GP were making that close to the salary of the other two, to be honest.

With that said, I think fans are going to be very unhappy about this, and might start tuning out. THis will especially become likely if Scott Caan keeps missing a lot of episodes as he has lately, which would leave O'Loughlin as the only "original" people could count on seeing each week.

I am guessing they will attempt to replace DDK and GP with younger actors -- one male, one female. The cast of Five-Zero is now entirely over 40, and they might want to inject some youth into the show.

Added: Tuesday 04 July 2017 03:18:22 MST
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The level of outrage over DDK and GP leaving the show has increased somewhat in the last few days.

Here are some tweets about this, forwarded to me by a friend:

Some people think that Alex O and Scott are being mean because they won't take a salary cut so the other two can have the same pay as them. Seriously, anyone complaining about this must be a total idiot. Anyway, isn't that like ... "communism"? ;)

It is hard to figure out who has to be to "blamed" for this mess, though it is not reasonable to consider that DDK or GP are the "bad guys." DDK is especially a nice fellow, and even though many people are saying "Well, I really am not too sad to see GP go," she is not a bad person either.

The big question is, when did CBS know that DDK and GP were not coming back? A blogger is suggesting that the issue was not money as reported in Variety. I find it hard to believe that there was no mention of money anywhere, since the duo's contracts were reportedly for 7 years, and 7 years are up. I'm sure CBS could have bankrolled at least one more year on the show for both of them. If CBS knew they weren't coming back weeks or months ago, then why didn't the show just wrap up instead of taking us on yet another tangent with new characters, new plot lines and other stupidity?

Of course, the direction of the show has been seriously screwed up for a very long time, with the writers' approach seeming to be either "throw enough crap on the wall and some of it will stick" or "we're just making this up as we go along," despite Lenkov saying words to the effect that they know what the "big picture" of the show will be, i.e, where the plot will lead, how it will all end, etc., etc.

No doubt people connected with the show's production will try and put on a good face and continue the "ohana" vibes for next season, but I think the departure of these two has put a big dent in the show's morale. Will there be a screening of the premiere for the 8th season on the beach in September as has happened in previous years? I don't think so! I can just see Lenkov up on stage smiling, saying that everything is swell, but people in the audience will probably be screaming at him!

I sure wouldn't like to be any new actors that are coming on to replace DDK and GP (dunno about DDK, there was a casting call for GP's replacement already). It will be like when Michael Douglas left Streets of San Francisco because he got opportunities to be a producer and so forth and Richard Hatch took over his job. Hatch said that he was really freaking out when this happened, because there were big shoes to fill.

By the way, I can't believe some people are actually using the word "grieving" when discussing DDK and GP's departure. Hello, "grieving" is used if a crackpot runs over and kills someone you know or are related to with a truck! Sheesh.

Added: Monday 03 July 2017 08:39:11 MST
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