Five-O Home Page Discussion Forum

As far as the reboot "banter," I'd like to share my 2 cents.

I get that the dynamics between the characters are radically different when compared to the original simply because of the age differences - the dynamics are going to be different naturally.

What I think started as a running gag, which should have been short-lived, has turned into a monster all its own. What little I have seen of the 'arguments' in the reboot between Steve and Danny are forced - like they're trying to be funny (what few I've seen) but they aren't. The original suffered from this as well in the later seasons, by the way.

Which now leads to another off-the-wall question: If Steve and Danny bicker this much, how do they expect to run a restaurant together? Doesn't work and that may be why this 'running gag' makes people crazy. (I know not everybody, just a bunch of us).

Added: October 06 2018 01:21:42 PM
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The banter in the scripts keeps increasing, & getting dumber & dumber in each suceeding episode.

Added: October 06 2018 04:30:47 AM
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Mike, imagine if you did have the power to write Caan out of the show. Just think about all the changes you would have done to improve the show. Everything short of raising Jack Lord from the grave. :)

Added: October 05 2018 08:38:33 PM
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Carol, this forum and this web site has nothing to do with the production of the show. I suggest you contact Peter Lenkov, the executive producer, via @PLenkov on Twitter...

Added: October 05 2018 07:15:54 PM
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Hello Enjoy watching Hawaii 50 but get so sick of listening to Danny - Scott Caan arguing all the time. Please consider writing him out of the show. thank you

Added: October 05 2018 06:56:56 PM
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Mr. Mike. You have a strong list of the worst Classic HFO episodes. When Does A War End? Top 5. Muromoto was very bland and not a very dynamic character. Ending of When Does A War End? 1 of the worst. Barker crouching in a soldier's uniform and McG and Danno cutting through wire fence. Dear Enemy probably Top 5 wasting Vera Miles and Gary Collins in a forgettable script. The Short Walk On A Longshore equally bad with McG going undercover not telling anyone. The ending was just tacked on and not a very good story. The Kahuna Season 12 was also 1 of the worst. Voice Of Terror with Karl yelling is up there. There's probably a few others that the Classic HFO forum regulars will add. In more pleasant didcussion, I moved Murder--Eyes Only to 1 of the few 6 stars ranking. It's outstanding photography and scenery and an excellent story tipped the scale. Also, Wo Fat appears a few times. Watching it again, I now understand how they rescued Mrs. Waldren from the Clinic. It was a real facility. Loved the scene when McG crashes the letter bomb through the window. It would be interesting experiment to see if that would go through the thick window. However, McG launched the letter bomb with great speed through the window. Difficult to replicate. JC

Added: October 05 2018 01:13:13 PM
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Hi Mike,

I would give THE KAHUNA at least TWO STARS for the score by Mort Stevens - the show may be bad, but it can be tolerated by listening to the score - just my thoughts:)

Added: October 05 2018 11:41:27 AM
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I just watched To hell with Babe Ruth, UGH! But then I thought about which other shows are really bad.

I now think When will a war end? is probably the worst show. A bird in hand is stupid, but at least you can laugh at it. The Moroville covenant is also VERY, VERY BAD.

Interesting, of the 0.5 STAR episodes, 6 of them are in the 12th season. School for assassins should probably be a BOMB, aside from Pamela Shoop in a bikini. The same argument might be made for The kahuna, with Cathy Lee Crosby similarly attired.

To die in paradise
Deadly courier
Though the heavens fall
Sign of the ram
Voice of terror
School for assassins
The golden noose
The Moroville covenant

To hell with Babe Ruth
When will a war end?
The kahuna
Clash of shadows
A bird in hand

Added: October 05 2018 08:05:14 AM
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Ringfire - thanks! This reminds me a lot of the other fandom I'm fairly active in and I can tell you, I felt welcome from the start! :)

Mr. Mike - you are amazing!! This is some fabulous trivia you're finding and I love what Beth wrote up about the legalities in Five-O.

Great job as always and I, for one, am glad. :)

Added: October 04 2018 05:51:30 PM
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I am going thru this folder of H50 trivia in my mail program and found this very long comment, seemingly taken from some H50 mailing list called HAWAIIFIVE0-L@HOME.EASE.LSOFT.COM (does anyone remember what that was all about, I don't think it was the one at Yahoo) about the episode Along Came Joey...


The final draft for "Along Came Joey" was titled "Golden Boy With Black Trunks." A few of the differences between the script and the actual show:

The Kalama family is supposed to be more obviously Hawaiian. Frank de Kova, who played Phil Kalama, the cop father of the dead boxer, certainly didn't look Hawaiian, so this angle was lost. And the script has references to "our people" and to "big kahuna" legend that were dropped from the show. The father is also a more sympathetic character in the script, a likable man who becomes driven by grief. As de Kova played him, he was pretty unemotional and rather pig-headed. There's a scene - maybe Fam Chan cut it or maybe it just wasn't filmed - where he stands at his son's new grave and McGarrett comforts him.

Lois, Joey's girlfriend, was nicer in the script, not the ambiguous, cool character we saw. As written, there was no doubt she cared for Joey, and when she left Morgan's boat she was supposed to tell him she'd like to see him again so she could "spit in his face." And when she tells McGarrett "I killed Joey", she was supposed to bury her face in her hands and sob. When she tells McGarrett that she and Joey were planning to get married and she says "That rock you a little, McGarrett?", his classic, waveable comeback - "Nothing rocks me anymore, honey" - is not in the script.

When Kalama has his fatal encounter with Keller on the staircase outside the apartment building, we saw Keller fall over a railing and plunge to his death. The script simply called for him to fall down a long flight of stairs.

The script called for the final scene to take place in a half-built warehouse-type building rather than outdoors. When McGarrett is trying to talk Kalama out of shooting Morgan, Kalama was to have said to McGarrett "The devils are riding the world again and no big kahuna can pray this one away." McG replies "You pull that trigger again and those devils will dance on your grave and Joey's forever." A bit later McG tells him that if he pulls the trigger again he'll blow the image of law and order for all cops and "there will be nothing but devils dancing on the souls of all of us."

The last line in the show we saw was spoken by McGarrett, when he tells Kalama that his son made a crooked deal and he has to learn to deal with it. This line came earlier in the script, when McG was still trying to talk him out of pulling the trigger. In the script, Kalama gets the last word. They are walking out of the building "into the light" and, incredibly, he says "A contender...he could have been a contender." The author must have been a fan of "On The Waterfront"!

Finally, the script had MAY!! A number of early-season scripts have more May scenes than we ever saw. I think she was originally envisioned as a much more integral part of the Five-0 team than she turned out to be. In this script, after the boat scene with Lois and Morgan but before the next scene showing a guy who has broken into Lois's apartment and is fiddling with her shower (??), there was supposed to be a scene of McGarrett in his office in the middle of the night, with his jacket off, his collar open, his tie askew. He's obviously tired from working so late on the case. May is also working late, and she comes in and they talk a bit, and he calls her "luv" a couple times. They take turns staring out the window into the night - her first, then him. Later on, in the scene where Elroy is being questioned in McGarrett's office and he eventually admits to killing Joey, May was supposed come in to read back the other bad guy's statement, and she was also supposed to take Elroy's statement. In the filmed version, Danno did all this. McG also called her "luv" again in this scene.

My theory: the actress was so overwhelmed every time Gorgeous Jack called her "luv" she couldn't remember her lines and they had to let her go.

Added: October 04 2018 03:29:29 PM
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Bobbi, I could have sworn you’ve been posting here for years. Didn’t know you only became a fan last year. Welcome aboard and aloha!

Added: October 04 2018 01:19:28 PM
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Hi Mike,

Just a quick shout out to you to say a BIG MAHALO for including the wonderful music cues for the revised A THOUSAND PARDONS review.

This is a great score by Mort and we can only hope that this will some day see the light of day on a CD release.

In the meantime, I will enjoy what you put together, as I know it took a lot of effort on your part to do it.

Thanks again, my friend!

Added: October 04 2018 01:10:55 PM
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This is an interesting discussion of constitutional rights posted by Beth A. Fox (are you still around, Beth?) in the Usenet group in October, 1997…

In the first few seasons of Hawaii Five-O, the team routinely committed violations of Miranda (advising suspects in custody of their constitutional rights before questioning them), Massiah (right to counsel), and search and seizure law. Let's take these one by one; then I'll give my thoughts as to WHY the writers were so sloppy.

Miranda. Sometimes it seems as if McGarrett had never heard of the case, although the Supreme Court had decided it in 1966 -- two years before "Hawaii Five-O" hit the airwaves. I can't count the number of times he'd question in-custody suspects (those who are "not free to leave") without first reading them their rights.

Sometimes (this started in the middle of the first season) we hear McGarrett remind suspects -- after questioning them -- that "they've been apprised of their constitutional rights" and McGarrett wants the suspects to acknowledge that. Examples of this tactic are found in "And They Painted Daisies . . ." (when McGarrett questions Ann in the hospital as she's going through withdrawal) and "Pray Love Remember" (when McGarrett makes the boyfriend sign a waiver after the questioning is over.) What an insane tactic! Suppose the suspects deny that they've been read their rights, then what?

Of course, as you know, Miranda does not apply where the suspects are not in custody in any sense; thus, it was perfectly appropriate for McGarrett to question Bobby Rand's girlfriend over a drink in "No Blue Skies," and Professor David Stone in "Up Tight" (now, there's a guy who knew his rights.)

With respect to the revolutionaries in "The Young Assassins," I, like you, was aghast at the questioning. By Season Seven, McGarrett has learned to read suspects their rights, but seems to ignore the suspects when they invoke. You are right that once the PAG members invoked their Miranda rights, McGarrett should have ceased questioning them. Anything they say after invoking will be suppressed, as well as any evidence that is found as a result of the tainted confession (the "fruit of the poisonous tree".)

Worse, from my point of view, was the questioning itself. Why didn't McGarrett question each PAG member separately? It is clear to me that one of them would have cracked -- and fast. Finally, why bring Manicote to this disaster? Obviously, Manicote isn't keeping his investigating officer on the right legal track (the ostensible purpose for having a DA involved in the investigation.) Moreover, if it is later found that Manicote messed up, the Governor will probably hit the ceiling, remove Manicote from the case and appoint the attorney general.

Right to counsel. When suspects are represented by counsel, they may not be questioned outside the presence of their attorney. The Five-O team dislikes lawyers (who doesn't?) so they "will the impossible" -- i.e., make the lawyers disappear by ignoring them -- even when the suspects ARE ALREADY REPRESENTED BY COUNSEL.

On this issue, Danno was the worst offender. In "Force of Waves," Danno has Mrs. Sloan brought in for questioning. Mrs. Sloan states that she wants to wait for her lawyer (a man Danno KNOWS is representing her, because he met the guy already.) Nevertheless, Danno plunges in. Mrs. Sloan again states that she wants to wait for her attorney. Danno keeps going. When the lawyer finally arrives, he has every right to be ticked off at the worst violation of the right to counsel since Gideon v. Wainwright.

But Steve McGarrett has problems, too. Jo-Louise Mailer was represented by counsel in "The Joker's Wild, Man, Wild"; she also asked to speak with her attorney; yet McGarrett continued to question her. (I do note that in that case, there was an emergency--someone was about to be killed--so, "Damn the torpedoes, full speed ahead.")

Search and seizure violations are routine on Five-O, although they are less common as the series goes on. The warrantless and impermissible searches (i.e., Danno's search of the locker in "A Bullet for McGarrett") seem to give way as time goes on to searches that may be warrantless, but are permitted exceptions (i.e., where there are arguably "exigent circumstances" -- like Eddie Joseph's room in "I'll Kill 'Em Again"; or when in "hot pursuit" (many instances.))

So why did this happen? I think that part of the reason is that, for about a decade, starting in the early sixties, the Supreme Court kept changing the law quickly and dramatically. No sooner had police officers assimilated Mapp v. Ohio (search and seizure--1961) than they were hit with Massiah (right to counsel--1964) Escobedo (1964) and Miranda (1966.) TV writers who had cut their teeth on "Perry Mason" or "The Detectives" probably could not assimilate all of the changes. Or maybe it was just wishful thinking: "let's show crime-fighting the way it ought to be, without these pesky legal stumbling blocks."

The Five-O writers were not alone in this; most shows of the era have similar problems. There is one exception: Jack Webb. He did it right -- all the time. His sets were EXACT replicas of LAPD stations, his actors dressed exactly like LAPD officers (with real LAPD badges), the cases were based on LAPD files; and the new victim's rights laws they featured on Adam-12 in fact had just been enacted in California. More to the point, the procedure they all followed was exactly "by the book"; the second after Kent McCord slaps handcuffs on a suspect (behind the back, of course) you hear "You have the right to remain silent . . . " And damn, in the one episode of Adam-12 where they showed a preliminary hearing, the objections were the exact same ones I always heard as a prosecutor.

Of course, you pay a price for this: "Dragnet" and "Adam-12" had more than a little LAPD input, and Webb had to slant the shows in a certain direction. For example, although no Dragnet episode featured the Watts riot that had devasted Los Angeles in 1965, a 1968 episode of Dragnet bragged about how the LAPD had PREVENTED a riot after the murder of Dr. Martin Luther King, Jr.

Overall, Five-O writers told engaging and interesting stories. I am willing to ignore a few violations of constitutional rights (in fiction only!) in order to move the story along. Frankly, let them break down the occasional door -- it's more fun that way. But the constant violations of constitutional rights (in practically every episode) are just inexcusable, PARTICULARLY WHEN THEY CAN EASILY BE FIXED. For example, Danno can just say he had a warrant for the locker; Mrs. Sloan's goofball attorney can sit in on the questioning "like a potted plant"; McGarrett can stop questioning the PAG after they invoked Miranda (as I recall, they didn't say anything anyway.)

The above came in response to a message from someone named Capelto as follows (I don't think this was on Usenet):

Let me open up the legal nitpicking to our good friend and colleague Beth/Cinnamon, with regard to the two revolutionaries invoking their Miranda rights in the interrogation room. Yet McGarrett and the D.A. continue to question them, threaten them with jail time, etc. Don't you think all statements after the suspects invoked Miranda would be suppressed?

Incidentally, having just seen Along Came Joey on Sunday night, we see an even more egregious example of McGarrett's practice of continually trying to break down suspects after they have either requested a lawyer or invoked their right to remain silent. In that episode, McGarrett and Danno use the old "good cop, bad cop" routine combined with playing the two suspects against each other. This is just the sort of thing criminal lawyers will advise their clients about.

I do recall one earlier episode in which a (slimy) criminal defense attorney comes charging into McGarrett's office and tells McGarrett "No questions" when his client is being questioned. But that's pretty rare in the show, isn't it?

Added: October 04 2018 12:39:02 PM
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Ringfire, the tire tread business in A Thousand Pardons is not some "small thing." It is an incorrect plot detail that seriously affects everything that follows. There are many examples of this kind of mistake in the new H50.

As I suggested, it is quite possible that McGarrett is just bluffing -- let's face it, cops engage in this kind of deception often -- but if that is the case, why didn't Sims just respond words to the effect "You are full of crap, McGarrett, that piece of tread is not from my Jeep. If there was such a huge piece off my Jeep's tires, how could I have driven back to the base? Why don't we go to the car pool and see right now?"

I think that there was enough "cut the show some slack" stuff in the first season, much of which I ignored when I watched the episodes again recently, and we are now in the second season ... though what follows A Thousand Pardons is one of the worst shows ever!

Added: October 04 2018 08:53:24 AM
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Ringfire - you make me laugh!

You're right - she's exactly like that! I used to be like that - I hope not quite that bad. Granted, I had just received copies of episodes of my favorite show after not seeing it for 14 years, many moons ago. The time I realized I wasn't the only fan out there and that was huge.

Added: October 03 2018 06:51:25 PM
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I do! No, total typo - I'm an idiot sometimes ;)

Should be 2017!!! :D

Added: October 03 2018 06:45:42 PM
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Wow, Bobbi! 2107? You have a DeLorean or something?

Seriously, the way the woman gushes about the new episode reminds me of a little girl where every new thing is, like, the greatest thing EVER! The dog Eddie makes an appearance and that’s, like, the greatest and cutest thing EVER! Tani watching the men dig is, like, the hottest thing EVER! The McDanno apartment-gument was, like, the best one EVER! I have a feeling if someone had farted it would have been, like, the greatest fart EVER!

Added: October 03 2018 06:28:44 PM
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I can do you one better Ringfire - I didn't get hooked on Five-O until the Fall of 2107 -- how bad is that!? I remember watching it with my dad during the later part of the original run but for whatever reason it didn't hook me in until recently. I chalk it up to having more life experience under my belt compared to when I was 8-10 years old. ;) Because of that, I am able to pick up some of the finesse and nuances that I didn't pick up before. The other issue, the episodes are rewatchable and I don't think that's the case with the reboot. I could be wrong and to each their own. People like what they like but yeah, the gushing is a bit overboard.


Added: October 03 2018 04:40:34 PM
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What’s crazy is that Linda character who wrote that Cocoon review is 58 years old, yet gushes over Alex and the show like a 16 year old! :!wondering: I didn’t know women in their 50s acted this way or even cared for the new show. She says she was only 8 in 1968 when the original premiered and thus never cared for the original show. Well, guess what? I wasn’t even a glimmer in anyone’s eye at the time. I was born at the end of 1980 when MAGNUM debuted its pilot and FIVE-O had already finished its run. Yet that didn’t stop me from becoming a huge fan of the show later on in reruns. Since I’m much younger than her (by a whole 20 years) I shouldn’t like the original and should love the new one, right? You would think. But no, because to me the new one lacks quality and the old one does. I just can’t understand someone who grew up in the 60s and 70s liking modern shows. I just wonder what she watched when she was growing up. Did she not watch any TV back then and was only exposed to it when Five-Zero came out, causing her to think this is the best stuff since sliced bread? I understand that millenials only know what’s current and trendy and don’t remember or care about old shows. I give them a pass. But surely someone in their 50s remembers great shows of yesterday and would not so easily be impressed by flashy stuff of today. One would think anyway.

Added: October 03 2018 04:23:45 PM
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In the words of the original Higgins, "Oh My God!"

The last paragraph on the second link has me - dumbstruck. Wha...What? The "best show on television" wouldn't be except for what came before. Sure, Lenkov could have made the same show and given it any title, except he chose Five-Zero. So here we are.

For the record, I wanted to like the reboot. They just didn't suck me in with the pilot. Should I have tried other episodes? Sure - and I have. Not that Five-Zero doesn't have its good moments, it does. There just isn't enough there for me. Meanwhile, the more I watch the original, the more layers I find to uncover. It's definitely fun.

Added: October 03 2018 02:41:22 PM
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(The motto of this site is "Surfing the wave on the positive side!")

When I first heard H50 was going to be retelling the original 1968 Pilot story of Hawaii Five-O, I was excited mostly because I absolutely loved their previous effort with S3E15 "Hookman", and not because I remembered the original episode. I was eight years old when the original H5O debuted and, as you all know, it was not a show I cared for, throughout its 12-year run. So, the same way I went back and watched the original "Hookman" back in Season 3, I went to CBS All Access to check out the original "Cocoon."

[She didn't watch the original pilot, she watched the two-part version. See my post from September 06 2018 08:14:56 AM]

I have to say, just like with "Hookman", I liked the current iteration of this episode so much more than the original. The original was a two hour/double episode and with the number of commercials in 1968 being significantly less than they are today, that left a lot of time to fill. So, there's a lot in the 1968 version which, while great for 1968, just wasn't needed in 2018. I think Peter Lenkov did a fantastic job of taking Leonard Freeman's original story and pruning out what was unnecessary for 2018 while keeping the essence of the story totally and lovingly intact. You can feel the reverence Peter has for the original story in all the ways this version mirrors the original. The way Steve kneels over the body of the victim at the beach, the reconstruction of the cocoon with its adjacent lab, the burned pieces of paper containing the clues, much verbatim dialog, and on and on.

I also love how he updated the story and to allow the entire team to be fully involved in the investigation of the murder of CIA Agent Tom Hennessey, an old friend of Steve's. Danny, Tani, Junior, Lou and Jerry are front and center in numerous scenes at HQ and around the magic table. As I noted in a previous blog, the original "Cocoon" was pretty much the "Jack Lord" show. Danny, Chin and Kono were in the episode, of course, and were part of the investigation but the vast portion of screen time was centered around only McGarrett.

[From the end]

And there you have it. A perfect season premiere containing everything we love about this show. Peter wrote a fantastic script, taking all the best elements of the original and making it ever better by utilizing every member of the team to their best advantage. He also set up stories to move forward into the season.


Peter: You did Mr. Freeman proud! Cocoon was awesome! What a great job you did getting two hours down to one and the team involvement was perfect. And thank you for all the Steve and Danny time! Always the best part of H50. Great start to what's sure to be a great season!


The above is nothing, though. Check out this:

Added: October 03 2018 08:04:44 AM
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Mike, thanks for the Emmy-winning Morton Stevens score for "A Thousand Pardons". I look forward to my 2 favorite Richard Shores scores from season 2 - "Forty Feet High" and "Bullet for McG". Huge fan of "Singapore File" too - a mix of Shores and Stevens!

I agree that the tire tread that McG produces for Simms doesn't make sense. Are we to assume that as Simms was circling aggressively around Watanu in his Jeep a piece of tire just peeled off? That sounds unlikely. And if it did peel off would the Jeep still be in a drivable condition? Highly unlikely, unless he drove on just a partial tire and rim. An impression/cast of the tire would have made much more sense. Still an excellent episode and I wouldn't lower it by half a star for this small thing (not sure if that's why you lowered your rating).

Added: October 02 2018 02:05:18 PM
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I'm glad you figured things out, Ringfire. I was disturbed by the reaction of people to those press releases not only here, but elsewhere like in my Twitter account (@fiveohomepage). I should have just referred people to their appearance on the "next season" page. Take a look at the heading at the top of that page...

Having finished season one of the old show, I did the first show of season two yesterday. This is because most of it was already written up. The rest of this season is going to take a while, because most of the reviews -- dating back 20 years -- are one paragraph each, aside from Bored She Hung Herself.

Added: October 02 2018 07:37:33 AM
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Well, Mr. Mike, you got me. I did indeed fall for your "upcoming episodes" hook, line and sinker. In my own defense, I'll say that it's because your "episodes" seemed to fit right in with the ridiculous antics of the new show, so I wouldn't be surprised by anything they would do.

Added: October 02 2018 03:48:42 AM
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Well, Mr. Mike has always been a snark, figures.

Checked the Proboards and saw things more interesting then what Mike wrote, in fact they are doing a flashback episode that goes back to 1941.

Added: October 02 2018 12:48:43 AM
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I hope you guys realize that Mr. Mike is having some fun with you guys regarding those "upcoming episodes". No, Diamond Head will not erupt and AOL will not be redirecting the lava flow using an earth mover. :D
And Duke taking hostages because he wants to be on the team? :D

BTW I saw the Cocoon remake. By Five-Zero standards it was quite good. It didn't exactly follow scene for scene (as I didn't expect it would) and of course the Danno bickering couldn't be avoided. But the scenes that it did duplicate it did very well and I was pleasantly surprised by the accuracy. Much better than the MAGNUM pilot and also a better remake than Hookman (as Mike pointed out). In the latter it wasn't just the anti-gun rant by Danno that bugged me but Hookman himself. There were no hooks. In my opinion that was a VERY big omission. What we got was Fingerman instead. Or Handman.

Added: October 01 2018 08:48:05 PM
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Is this press release for the upcoming episodes for real or is this a joke? I really hope it's the latter...

Added: October 01 2018 12:51:47 PM
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re: press release "Diamond Head erupts..."

The Hawaiian Archipelago was/ is created by a hot spot that as of now is beneath the Big Island.
Therefore it is impossible for Diamond Head which is on O'ahu to erupt. No comment.

Added: October 01 2018 03:19:16 AM
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